Sourav Ganguly - One of our Greatest Captains!

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Sourav Ganguly - One of our Greatest Captains!

Post by PKBasu »

Ganguly also admitted that there had been a suggestion made that he should step down from the captaincy (although he didn't mention who made the suggestion). I thought it might be Dravid, but Rediff speculates that it was Greg Chappell who made that suggestion. Extraordinary if he did.
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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by Sandeep »

Extraordinary if he did.
What is extraordinary in it? Ganguly will be thrown out of team if he steps down as a captain!
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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by PKBasu »

It is extraordinary for a coach to ask the captain to step down. Normally, the relationship between coach and captain is one of the keys to the success of a team, as indeed it was in the time of Ganguly and Wright.

Here's cricinfo's story on this (which doesn't mention or allude to Chappell):

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/zimvind ... 19375.html
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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by puneets »

I don't think that *all* the critics have gone crazy.

They were justified to some extent when they wanted ganguly out of the team (before the century). He was performing awfully in the past couple of years.
This is what Ganguly had to say about the critics:

"I have been disappointed over the last six months so the century today was a great relief," he added. "I accept that I have not batted well over that period"

on critics:
"it has been fair. I struggled against Pakistan and the last year has been a disappointing one for me. It is not for me to prove anything, because the criticism has been fair. I have got the ability to play for the team."
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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by Sandeep »

Agreed, critics are fair about Ganguly for past 2 years. He was not performing. I never complained about it. But why are they making fuss even when he scored a century?

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/zimvind ... 19369.html
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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by puneets »

nothingnew wrote:Agreed, critics are fair about Ganguly for past 2 years. .. But why are they making fuss even when he scored a century?
This is just one critic :)
You can read numerous stories about Ganguly's praise in other newspapers.
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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by cibtt »

I have been one of Ganguly's biggest hater these past few years, and I've felt that his captaining ability has overshadowed his ability to score runs and take cathces. At one point I went so far as to thinking that he should be named our new coach (jokingly). This century here against Zimbabwe has very little meanining for obvious reasons but then again he showed India that he can still play.
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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by PKBasu »

Yesterday, Sunny Gavaskar was saying on TV that we in India have an amazing ability to manufacture feuds where none exist. Intrigue is our favourite activity, as you can see in the newspapers -- which report the ups and downs of relationships between politicians within each party, or cricketers within the team, or hockey players and officials, etc. rather than analysing/reporting the success of much that is happening in India.
Since last year (ever since Ranbir Mahendra, a man with whom Ganguly has an especially bad history, became BCCI chief) there has been a determined attempt to remove him from the captaincy. Much of this is occurring behind-the-scenes, but it is clearly affecting Ganguly's ability to lead the team in the way he used to, contributing to dissension within, and consequently severely affecting his batting too.
The difference was quite evident when he went to Glamorgan in the summer and topped the averages for them -- in five matches, he had 1 century and 3 fifties, and averaged 62.57. Of course, this fact -- that Ganguly had worked off his poor form in a determined way in county cricket -- never registered with the majority of the Indian press.
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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by PKBasu »

cibtt wrote:I have been one of Ganguly's biggest hater these past few years, and I've felt that his captaining ability has overshadowed his ability to score runs and take cathces. .
I know the feeling. When there is relentless criticism of people in authority (as there invariably is in India), hatred is something that comes quite naturally to young people. Everything that is wrong seems perfectly attributable to the person in charge, and the critics in the press are always able to point out how they would do things differently (and better).

I used to hate Indira Gandhi when I was your age, cibtt, perhaps with much more venom than you are able to summon up about Ganguly! Only on deeper reflection in graduate school was I able to understand that the domestic political events of 1969-75 (and their consequences for the economy) had more than one villain. Similarly, on greater reflection a decade or two hence, you will probably realise that Ganguly must have had some redeeming traits that enabled him to become the most successful captain in Indian test history.
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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by SriramP »

I still feel Ganguly is a match-winner in ODI's. He still has the ability to win matches single-handedly on his day. Just that off late he hasn't been having his days more often than he or we all would like..! And a great deal I feel is because of the non-cricket related pressure ..! He is THE BEST player in terms of potential in the current Indian ODI team ..!

In tests, sadly he never lived up to his potential..! I hope he has reserved his best for the next 3-4 years and retire on a high note...! And I hope this test innings, however insignificant people may feel it is, will be the starting of a great chapter...!

I know a lot of people will find this post ridiculous and I'm expecting :tomato: s..!
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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by PKBasu »

Ganguly needs to realise that his abilities have diminished over time.
I agree that he has been one of India's best-ever ODI batsmen. But, having quit opening the batting in ODIs several years ago, his abilities against pace have actually diminished further. I think it is fatuous of him to attempt to open again. He should, in fact, come in at around no. 4 or 5 in ODIs so that he can play the middle overs -- a la Mohinder Amarnath in the 1980s side. I think Sourav today bats a lot like Mohinder did (except for the fact that Mohinder was a much more confident hooker in his prime, ie for about two years). In Sourav's prime, he was a peerless ODI opener but I don't think he should open now.
As for test cricket, I think Greg Chappell was right in suggesting that Sourav doesn't merit a place in the side ahead of Kaif and Yuvraj -- but Greg was utterly wrong to suggest this just before the start of a test match. Dravid and Ganguly behaved with great maturity in the circumstances. I think the baton is passing to Dravid, almost imperceptibly, but Chappell needs to tread with more sensitivity.

That said, I think the way in which the BCCI brass (Ranbir Mahendra, Raj Singh Dungarpur, et al) have intrigued over the past 11 months to remove India's most successful captain has been utterly disgusting.
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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by Sandeep »

He is THE BEST player in terms of potential in the current Indian ODI team ..!
Are you saying he has more potential than Sachin? That is ridiculous if you say so! Or are you talking with regards to the current team in Zimbabwe. If you are talking about the later then I agree with you.
He should, in fact, come in at around no. 4 or 5 in ODIs so that he can play the middle overs -- a la Mohinder Amarnath in the 1980s side
PKB, the problem with him coming at No.4 or No.5 is that he is not a good runner between wickets and he is not a great believer of carassing the ball through gaps and run for 1's and 2's . It was a problem with Ganguly right from the beginning. He is great in first 15 overs but then simply doesn't have many scoring options when field spreads up. He doesn't have any delicate stroke on onside which fetches him singles.
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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by Sandeep »

Ganguly hasn't fared all that badly if you look at the statistics you know: -

In the last 15 tests: -
---------------------------
Sehwag scored 1685 runs at an average of 70.20 with 5 centuries and 5 half centuries

Dravid scored 1279 runs at an average of 63.95 with 4 centuries and 5 half centuries

Sachin scored 1252 runs at an average of 65.89 with three centuries and 2 half centuries

Ganguly scored 849 runs at an average of 42.55 with 2 centuries and 5 half centuries

Laxman scored 679 runs at an average of 33.95 with 1 century and 4 half centuries

Ganguly's average of 42 I thought is not bad.

And if you look at the one day stats: -

In last 50 onedays: -
------------------------
Sachin scored 2105 runs at an average of 45.76

Dravid scored 1756 runs at an average of 41.80

Kaif scored 1418 at an average of 39.38

Laxman scored 1510 at an average of 34.31

Yuvraj scored 1378 runs at an average of 30.62

Ganguly scored 1403 runs at an average of 30.50

Sehwag scored 1442 runs at an average of 29.42

There is really not much difference between players. Al are scoring at almost same rate (obviously Sachin and Dravid are exceptional, they are among the best in the world)

Agreed that Ganguly is playing below his potential but then when you are talking about removing him from the team you need to have an youngster who can take up his position and score more than him. I don't see many doing that. And ofcourse an younster who will come in can never substitute Ganguly's experience. I believe we need Ganguly atleast till 2007 world cup. Seriously if you look at the stats there are not many players who performed better than him!
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Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by Red_Indian »

Care to seperate those stats into Zim + Bangladesh + Kenya stats and "others" for all batsmen Sandeep - not trying to make any point (atleast at this time), just curious.
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