Indian domestic cricket/ players

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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by PKBasu »

Rahane failed in both innings of the Duleep Trophy semifinal (didn't get into double digits in either innings). I hope the selectors understand that scoring a double century against NE Zone (comprising teams who are all in the Plate division of Ranji Trophy, and none of which were good enough to play first class cricket even in the relatively weak East Zone until recently) is utterly meaningless. Rahane's time is well and truly over.
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by prasen9 »

Rajkumar Sharma wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:08 am If you ignore failures in crunch games, then there is no point of playing the game.We cant enjoy test success only at home,
get beaten in WTC away and declare the team based in the world.
You cannot also beat a school team and declare the team the best in the world. See, I can also play your game. Make up statments that nobody made and strike them down. That is called creating strawmen and breaking them down. Not interested in playing that game because we have a fertile brain. We can create an infinite number of strawmen and break them down.

All I am saying is this. You can only say someone has a problem if that is validated over say 15 dismissals for batsmen or 15 innings for bowlers. Or some such number. When we do not have that data, then the contention is incomplete. That is because every batsman in the history of the world has failed in crunch games and the top ones have succeeded in crunch games. Batsmen are in 75% control and score a century by getting lucky and some days all the nicks go to the keeper or fielders and they get out when the first bad shot happens despite having 95% control. Luck and chance matters. However, when we have a series of bad scores or good scores, then we can say that it is not just because of bad luck.

Of course, if someone has failed in a WC final, you say that they have never succeeded in a crunch game. That is valid. Nobody is saying you ignore that. However, you cannot generalize from that and say that that person will always fail in future games.

So what is the solution? In order to predict, you can build models but that takes time. So, among the simple predictors, choosing something that has at least say 15 data points will give us a prediction that is most likely correct, even if it means that the person is out of form. And, when you have that you can decide on that. When you do not have that, you have to enlarge your pool of observations and take the nearest data wrt pitch, competition, etc. and see whether the player has performed or not.
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Yashasvi Jaiswal 2 double ton in Duleep Trophy. 209* against strong South Zone will definately put him in India A radar which means he is now ahead of Devdutt Padikkal and team needs a left hander opener as replacement of Shikhar Dhawan, so few India A games and one more season he definately in consideration
https://www.espncricinfo.com/player/yas ... al-1151278
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by prasen9 »

Yes, the kid seems very good in FC cricket and List-As. We should not plonk him in T20Is --- that is the format where he has not figured out how to bat despite 30 games or so. Thus, we should not try him there and junk him. Each person should be introduced in the right format where they belong and not this stupidity of introducing someone in T20Is and then in ODIs and then tests. Go Yash!
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

West Zone winning Duleep Trophy. Great bowling from Unadkat, he has been performing well in red ball cricket, it all depends on selectors wheather they give him another go. Ugly incident happened today, Jaiswal was asked to leave the field by skipper Rahane after he continued sledging to South Zone batters even after warning given by Rahane
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Rest of India squad for Irani Trophy 2021 against Saurashtra:

Hanuma Vihari (capt), Mayank Agarwal, Priyank Panchal, Abhimanyu Easwaran, Yash Dhull, Sarfaraz Khan, Yashasvi Jaiswal, KS Bharat (wk), Upendra Yadav (wk), Jayant Yadav, Saurabh Kumar, R Sai Kishore, Mukesh Kumar, Umran Malik, Kuldeep Sen, Arzan Nagwaswalla
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Venky Iyer 62* followed by 6/20 with the ball is standout allround performance in Round 1 of SMA T20 Trophy but whats not good for him is he bowled as 7th bowler for MP. To become Hardik's back up and create any sort of impact he should open the bowling in domestic & IPL
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Arjun Sachin Tendulkar shines in SMAT 6 wickets in 4 matches. Training under Jograj Singh is working for him.
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by prasen9 »

Rajkumar Sharma wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:21 pm Venky Iyer 62* followed by 6/20 with the ball is standout allround performance in Round 1 of SMA T20 Trophy but whats not good for him is he bowled as 7th bowler for MP. To become Hardik's back up and create any sort of impact he should open the bowling in domestic & IPL
The problem with Venky Iyer is that he is a beast with the bat against spinners but bats below a run a ball in T20Is and IPL etc. or something like that against the pacers. We need people who can play pace well too at that spot. Thus, even if he can bowl, I am not so sure we can rely on him for that slot. Of course, some coach should work with him to get him to play pace better. Sometimes, minor tweaks work.

The better option is to chart a course for a genuine allrounder such as Raj Bawa or some of the other U-19s that you were very high on. And, fast-track them.
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

prasen9 wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:57 am
Rajkumar Sharma wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:21 pm Venky Iyer 62* followed by 6/20 with the ball is standout allround performance in Round 1 of SMA T20 Trophy but whats not good for him is he bowled as 7th bowler for MP. To become Hardik's back up and create any sort of impact he should open the bowling in domestic & IPL
The problem with Venky Iyer is that he is a beast with the bat against spinners but bats below a run a ball in T20Is and IPL etc. or something like that against the pacers. We need people who can play pace well too at that spot. Thus, even if he can bowl, I am not so sure we can rely on him for that slot. Of course, some coach should work with him to get him to play pace better. Sometimes, minor tweaks work.

The better option is to chart a course for a genuine allrounder such as Raj Bawa or some of the other U-19s that you were very high on. And, fast-track them.
Lots of allrounders are there who looked to be good prospect not only in T20Is but also longest format. Plenty of away test matches are there in upcomming years and we need allrounders, but problem these guys face is IPL has become prime source of selection for all format. Chetan Sharma & Co. has made IPL performance more important then domestic. These allrounders needs skipprs like Rohit, Kohli, Dhoni or even Hardik to evolve, who can bring allround talents from them in games. Skipper like Mayank & Shreyas Iyer are worse for these guys. Iyer has made Venky Iyer loose confidence as allrounder which was brought up by Morgan in KKR. Raj Bawa was dropped after 2 gsmes for Punjab Kings. It was Samson who recently gave him good amount of bowling & batting against NZA as aresult he also gave performances. IPL captaincy should go to proper peoples who has the motive to build future for India not to those who things for his personal gains.
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by prasen9 »

IPL captaincy should go to the people who can win the trophy for their respective teams.

Nobody told Venky Iyer to bat badly against pacers in the T20Is he got. He simply could not hit the pacers. So, he is out. No point blaming the captain. The captain will not bat for him. He needs to fix his issues against pace bowling.

Yes, we need allrounders abroad. But, trying to force an allrounder instead of developing one gradually is as bad an idea as giving Umran Malik, who was a failure in Indian domestics consistently an India berth. You just cannot wish success based on a label and hope that it will happen.
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Haven't seen any batter get selected and play for India who can't play pace bowlers well neither have seen any one score 370+ runs in an IPL season as an opener without playing pace bowlers well or in domestic.Venky Iyer might be the first guy to do it in previous IPL edition.Hardik woukd'nt have been found anywhere close to Indian team if Rohit/Dhoni or Kohli didnt provide him support. Hardik could have easily dropped after his debut T20I series in Australia where he leaked runs.Umran Malik will never get success under Indian bowling coaches as they doesnt know how to guide a genuine fast bowler. Umran under indian bowling coach is a big run machine and Umran under Steyn in IPL is a terror though 6 wickets in 4 matches of SMAT with a 4fer & 3 in Irani isnt bad either.Not only Umran even Kuldeep, Mohsin will be destroyed if they doent get coach who kniws how to guide a tear away fast bowlers
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by prasen9 »

Umran under Steyn was smashed to all corners, let alone being a terror. He was a joke. Look up his runs/over to see how badly he was smashed. In IPL'22, he went for 9 runs/over. In the domestics. So, no wonder, he will be the juciest cupcake bowler when going to the internationals. No other pretender to the Indian team was perhaps smashed as badly as Umran was in the IPL'22 if I recall correctly.

Venkatesh Iyer can hit pace bowlers when the field is drawn up only as an opener. He is not playing as an opener in this team. Everyone here can play when the field is up. But, we need people who can play pace bowling when the field is not up. Also, VI was unknown in his first season and got a bunch of good scores. Once people figured out his batting, he has been dismal. Especially when batting in the MO against pace bowlers. Look at his overall record. If we pick only the matches one was successful and ignore where they failed, every batsman is a Bradman.

Update: Checked the stats. Umran was 64th !! among bowlers wrt economy. Kuldeep Sen even worse. 72nd. Umran at least took wickets here at 20 runs/wicket which was good. Kuldeep was awful with 29 runs/wicket. Mohsin Khan was truly fantastic. He should be nurtured and looked into more than perhaps he is getting.
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by Kumar »

Mohsin khan really looked impressive, but lot of left arm bowlers did that in last IPL. Is that becoz, indians don’t really handle left armers well?

I would like IPL stats to show more info like how they played cricketers with international experience versus players with minimal experience.
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Re: Indian domestic cricket/ players

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

There were more internationally famed juciest cupcake bowler in that IPL who had eco more then (9 or infact 10) Umran. Pat Cummins ( 10.68), A Nortje (9.71), M Siraj (10.07)all were smashed. Umran took wickets, 5 fers despite going for runs and was a lone warior of that SRH team. Hitting at him or Kuldeep Sen for run rate should be done after watching stats of the top international genuine fast bowlers, as they also bowled on same tracks and went for plenty without taking wickets.Cummins, Nortje are match winning bowlers for their teams and Siraj, who finished IPL 2022 with 10.07 eco has been for T20WC just because of his Odis & Test performances. Venkatesh Iyer came to limelight by batting at middle order for MP in domestic in 2019-20 and was picked by KKR, infact is 370+ runs in 2021 VHT came batting at the middle order as a result he was asked to bat at middle order for Indian team. It was hard luck for him & Umran as both of them were kicked out with few games, whereas many were there in indian cricket history who continued for 15-20 matches despite poor show

Hardik Pandya played for MI ( 2015-21 )

First 3 years when Rohit Sharma supported him despite his poor show

2015, Matches - 9 , Runs - 112 , Wickets - 1
2016, Matches - 11, Runs - 44, Wickets - 3
2017, Matches - 17, Runs - 250, Wickets - 6

Finally he got groomed and shown his Captain wasnt wrong in supporting him

2018, Matches - 13 , Runs - 260, Wickets - 18
2019, Matches - 16 , Runs - 402, Wickets - 14
2020, Matches - 14, Runs - 281, Wickets - DNB
2021, Matches - 12, Runs - 127, Wickets - DNB

V Iyer has scored 370 + runs in his IPL 2021 debut, much better then Pandya and captain gives him such kind of support he will definately be a top allrounder
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