Indian domestic cricket/ players

[prasen9]

Yes, there are more garbage than garbage Umran but that does not make him less garbage. Being smashed for over 9 runs/over does not mean you should be rewarded and put in the Indian team. He as #64 wrt least likely to be smashed to smithereens. No, the true evaluaton of him or Kuldeep should be done by looking at the over 60 and over 70 bowlers who bowled better than them. Not picking up the international bowlers who were out for form in this year's IPL. Garbage bowling is garbage bowling. Being hit at over 9 runs/over is being hit all over the park. This is like someone failing and then telling their parents, ... but, but the neighbor's son failed too. Who cares about the junk neighbor's son. I have no problem saying that Cummings and Siraj were smashed too. The difference is that Cummins has a body of work in T20Is, I think --- I have not checked carefully --- where he succeeded before and thus deserves continuing. Whereas Siraj, Kuldeep and Umran do not have that body of work.

Your logic comparing him to Cummins when he has an off year is like saying, "See Maninder Singh scored a zero. That is exactly the same number of runs Sachin Tendulkar scored in some of his tests. So, Maninder has shown great promise with the bat and should be considered a proven bat like the proven international bat Tendulkar." The point again is that this was Cummins worst or one of the worst and he has a body of work. Umran has never not being hit. In T20s domestics, which is even worse than the IPL, he has been awful over 26 matches. The IPL was just a few matches. I suspect that if the IPL lasted 20 games, he would not even have had a good average. his low average is a small sample size abberation. The better statistic to look at is his career stats in T20s. It is genuinely awful.

Yes, his average was great in a small number of games in this IPL. But, in order for one to be a strike bowler who is really useful, you need an average below 16 or so. Over a 9 match period, people have done this even though this is not sustainable in the long run. The reasoning is as follows. If you are giving 20 runs/wickets and at 9 runs/over, you are pretty much guaranteeing 180 runs because 20*10 equals 200 and that is over 180. So, you will end up giving 180 runs in 20 overs. Whereas if you are bowling at 8 runs/over, then you are going to give up 160 runs. If you are at 8.5, then you are giving up 170. In order to suffice for being smashed by taking wickets, you need to average below 16, then you are restricting the team to 160 runs or 17 for 170. Essentially, if we replicate you five times what total do we get is the question. So, the 20 runs/wicket does not matter much. Teams will gladly take an average of 20 runs/wicket and 9 runs/over because that means they will regularly reach 180 runs.

Yes, we should reward VI for his 370 runs the next 100 years despite failures again and again. VI has a very good T20I record but that is a Dr. Jeykll and Mr. Hyde record if you look at his splits. All of his international runs were scored below a run a ball against pacers in the MO and at a very high rate against spinners in international cricket. I wonder why you are only picking his first year and not his entire career. Is it because he has been failing more lately? Our domestic cricket is worse than IPL. So, for T20Is, IPL should be the domestics. It is a shame that I cannot find the Cricinfo analysis which showed Venky Iyer's problems against pace bowling when the field is spread. If anyone finds that analysis article please post here. I think I read it about a year ago.

Iyer does not have the pace or the line and length that Pandya has and has not been that devastating a hitter anyway. Should he be supported? Sure, everyone should be supported. But, if I were the selectors, i would focus on Bawa and some of the other youngsters who are more promising and less limited in their pace and ability to hit pace when the field is not up.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

Cummins, Siraj, Nortje eco can'be compared with Umran as if they were bowling in differant conditions & pitches.9/8 over bowlers will be tough to counter in Aus tracks. Siraj who smashed @10 over got picked for WC. He was worse then Umran when he started playing for India. Umran on the other hand won a tough game for the team.Its not a failure, If an uncapped domestic bowling well in a top league where all the best of the bowler takes part then it is his achievement when tops in the chart of most wickets. If he is worst then he would have never been picked, his name is still around when Bumrah's replacement process was on. Genuine pace is always tough to handle in T20Is, practice game against Aus was big example. Bhuvi in last few matches got smashed as he relied upon outside off stump yorkers as he didnt have pace whereas Shami nailed a pin point yourkers with pace, thats how an impact of fast bowlers have. Rauf, Wood, Nortje all have gone for plenty but the team didnt throw them out. Shami's over clearly shown Bhuvi & Harshal will have no effect in this tracks once the bowl become old as they dont have pace. Umran, Kuldeep needs 10-50 games before predicting them about their future. In india 150 + bowlers gets dropped for leaking runs whereas an in SENA these pacers are made lethal. Hardik has got plenty of opportunity to show his talent whereas V Iyer havent gone enough. Unless he gets 4 over to bowl & bat regularly in IPL its meaningless to say him not good enough.Pandya know only bouncers when he started his career, but what made him best is the opportunity he played as 3rd pacer in many games. MS/Rohit & Kohli had faith in him and gave him the new ball. If anyone failed as Hardik's replacement thats Vijay Shankar, he was given good opportunity both with bat & ball but he failed to capitalize the oportunity.

[prasen9]

Cummins, Siraj, Nortje eco can'be compared with Umran as if they were bowling in differant conditions & pitches.

They more or less bowled on similar pitches in the IPL and all of them largely failed this year.

9/8 over bowlers will be tough to counter in Aus tracks.

What is a 9/8 over bowler?

Siraj who smashed @10 over got picked for WC.

Which shows that we do not have good bowlers. Shami is also crap.

He was worse then Umran when he started playing for India.

Just because one crap was picked does not mean other crap should be picked. You should not make the same mistakes again and again.

If an uncapped domestic bowling well in a top league where all the best of the bowler takes part then it is his achievement when tops in the chart of most wickets.

Not really. If a bowler bowls where all the best batters are taking part and bowls well then it is an achievement. Whether other top bowlers are bowling or crappy bowlers are there in the league does not matter. And, that bowler was Mohsin Khan. Umran, Siraj, etc. were smashed like anything. Siraj got picked not because he was smashed to smithereens in the IPL. He was not picked actually. He got in because he has been doing well in the ODIs and did well against the RSA and that is why he was picked. Umran has no body of work that deserves picking. Over 26 T20s, he has utterly failed. He is a talent and should be honed in the domestics, NCA, A-team, etc. It is useless to put him in the main team and he keeps getting smashed. Then, we will have to chuck him out after 10 games or so.

If he is worst then he would have never been picked, his name is still around when Bumrah's replacement process was on.

Wrong again. As usual. Just because someone is picked does not mean that the selectors are god and always making the right decision. He was discussed and at the end he was not picked ahead of Shami, Siraj, or even Thakur. That is behind three bowlers. And this time, the selectors luckily saw the stupidity of taking a failure in even our domestic T20 leagues and foisting him in the big leagues. Let us develop him properly and then put him in the main team.

[Atithee]

With Umran, there may also be a J&K factor. Domestic appeasement effort, and I’m ok with it if he’s not miles behind the next best.

[prasen9]

I think the fundamental problem is not that Umran does not have potential but that we are destroying him by putting him in too early when he is getting canned in the domestics.

The IPL season is too short. That is why you see players unable to replicate their fluke successes. Instead of picking 5 games where Venky Iyer was successful and 9 games where Umran was successful and Cummings failed, we should look at the bigger picture.

Form is temporary, class is permanent. We should not keep people who have gone overhill though. That is why I am in favor of looking into at least 15 games before saying someone is good or bad. If you take that sample size, Umran is not there yet. He does not have control and is being hit left and right. When the ball falls in the right place, it can be hard to play. The key is to take him and fix his issues, which all of us agree is the way to go.

So the debate goes on as to whether he should be blooded right away despite being wayward or not. I say don't spoil him by playing him too soon. Someone who is being hit like crazy in the non-IPL domestics needs to work on things to fix. If and when he has mastered domestic bats and is terrorizing them, then we can get him into the national team. And that "if" does have to be over some time. Every dog has his day. So, I am not interested in three games where he turns a purple patch.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

I think the fundamental problem is not that Umran does not have potential but that we are destroying him by putting him in too early when he is getting canned in the domestics.

The IPL season is too short. That is why you see players unable to replicate their fluke successes. Instead of picking 5 games where Venky Iyer was successful and 9 games where Umran was successful and Cummings failed, we should look at the bigger picture.

Form is temporary, class is permanent. We should not keep people who have gone overhill though. That is why I am in favor of looking into at least 15 games before saying someone is good or bad. If you take that sample size, Umran is not there yet. He does not have control and is being hit left and right

Today we saw 5 Umran Maliks bowling against England and all these Umran Maliks are our star

[Rajkumar Sharma]

Top knocks from Ruturaj Gaikward & Tialk Verma in VHT 2022-23. Tilak should straight away drafted into the team as an opener in the Odi side. Dhawan,Rahul, Rohit, Kohli, SKY, Shreyas, Ruturaj, Gill.....7 one dimmensional cricketers are not required for Odis set up. Since team is still in search of consistent keeper batsman. KL should be asked to do the job or get dropped.Throwing Captaincy & VC hats should be stopped now, players are getting undue advantage of being captain with second string side which is making selectors think for for dropping.VC and second string captaincy should be given based on performance

[prasen9]

Today we saw 5 Umran Maliks bowling against England and all these Umran Maliks are our star

Yep, the non-UMs are now bowling like UM in this match like UM bowls in all matches, i.e., being smashed all over. Unfortunately, UM gets some wickets because some of his hurlers actually fall in line and then gets through some batters defences but these guys did nothing We really do not have any bowlers except Bumrah in the T20 sphere.

Without justifying their bowling, I think they went too much on the attack, i.e., more fuller or more shorter, because they knew that 168 is not defensible especially after the first few overs. That actually may not have been bad strategy. You had to go for wickets. However, they did not get wickets and did not contain either. Adelaide was flat at least in the I2.

[prasen9]

We should make Hardik permanent captain in the T20Is and maybe even in ODIs.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

We should make Hardik permanent captain in the T20Is and maybe even in ODIs.

We should stop feeding one dimmensional cricketers in T20Is/Odis. Players giving 2 services should be promoted through domestic & A tours.

[prasen9]

We should make Hardik permanent captain in the T20Is and maybe even in ODIs.

We should stop feeding one dimmensional cricketers in T20Is/Odis. Players giving 2 services should be promoted through domestic & A tours.

Absolutely. But, these players should be able to play multiple roles at the international level. Or have the potential to do it well at the international level. For example, Axar's batting is perhaps good for domestics but not really for T20Is. We cannot select one person at a time. We need to pick the best XI. That is, we can manage to carry two Bumrahs in a team and maybe 3 but for the 3rd slot, they absolutely need to be Bumrah. If they are Arshdeep quality, then they need to be able to bat some. Etc.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

Bowling standard has gone down in domestic cricket

[prasen9]

Bowling standard has gone down in domestic cricket

Why do you say so?

[Rajkumar Sharma]

Bowling standard has gone down in domestic cricket

Why do you say so?

The way domestic batters have scored runs in VHT 2022, it looks like they are playing video games. There are lot of allrounders in the team who plays A games and domestic regularly and are struggling against quality spinners. Its either bowling standard has gone down or BCCI is offering highway tracks in domestic having nothing for either pacers or spinners.

[prasen9]

So, we don't know what is going on. It may be a bunch of things.