World Cup 2019

As the other sports forums seem to have taken old to some respect, well here is a cricket forum. NOTE: This forum will be heavily moderated and can be revoked at any time is discussions go out of hand.

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PKBasu
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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by PKBasu » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:36 pm

Vijay Shankar is a much better choice than Rayudu, although the former didn't help himself today.

Really poor performance by the batsmen today. Kohli's rare failure in a chase seems to have killed the side. Dhawan's inconsistency is certainly worrying, but perhaps he is a big tournament player (like Ganguly). Jadhav and Bhuvi had a promising partnership, but really irresponsible of Jadhav to get out off the ball after Bhuvi fell. Jadeja remains a paradox with the bat.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by sameerph » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:54 pm

Poor series loss against a team which had lost 6 series in a row before this and were without their 2 best batsmen. Australia have gained a lot from this series - Khwaja ,Handscomb and Turner are now certain to be part of their world cup squad now and if Warner/Smith get into their pre-ban form, that will be a formidable side.

I think Pant may have said goodby to his world cup chances with performances behind the stumps and with bat in last 2 matches. I would now take DK as backup keeper instead. He is much steadier as bat too.

My 15 for world cup would be -

Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli, Dhoni, Shankar, Kedar, Hardik, Bhuvi, Kuldeep, Chahal, Bumrah, Shami, Rahul, Karthik and Jadeja.

If they think need an extra seamer in England than extra spinner, pick Khaleel Ahmed ahead of Jadeja. I guess they may go with Rayudu ahead of Rahul too. I would liked one of Shubhnam Gill or Mayank Agarwal or Shreyas Iyer for that batting spot but sadly none of them were given a chance in this series. So, they are not likely to be picked for world cup now.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by prasen9 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:53 pm

PKBasu wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:36 pm
Vijay Shankar is a much better choice than Rayudu, although the former didn't help himself today.
Vijay is much better at getting singles at will, which is *the* most important quality apart from the ability to stay at the wicket. Whether he can play a long innings, we do not have any data on. We have done a very poor job of trying out people who can be middle order bats.

My ideal team:

Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli, Iyer, Karthik, Kedar, Hardik, Kuldeep, Chahal, Shami, Bumrah.

Backup Bowlers: Bhuvi, Sundar

Backup bats: Pant, Rayudu

Of course, Iyer and Sundar will not be in the 15. And, Dhoni will be. Perhaps in place of Pant. And maybe they will take Jadeja. Rahul most possibly as the other bat. Although Vijay is in play for that position too. Let's see.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by Atithee » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:59 am

India were only six runs behind (223 vs. 229) at the fall of seventh wicket almost at the same point (45.6 and 45.5 overs). Barely a difference. It’s easy to see why we should only play batsmen who can bowl except Bumrah. They ended up with 272 and we ended up with 237.

Look at Kuldeep’s and Chahal’s returns in the last two matches too.

Still want to vote for Prasen XI? Be my Atithee! :D



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by Sin Hombre » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:22 am

Most of us have talked about the problems in this team, and thanks to Australia for exposing them.

One thing which I am surprised by is that no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room.

And that's Rohit. He loses us way more matches than he wins us. 90% of the games he plays a selfish innings refusing to accelerate in the power plays and forcing everyone around him to take unnecessary risks. Kohli had to go at 100 s/r from the start since Rohit was wasting balls around him. Maybe in 10% of the games, he stays long enough and is able to accelerate at the end.

His innings in both the 4th and 5th ODIs were terribly selfish innings whose only purpose is to inflate his average.


We have so many young guys who can play as a modern ODI opener and accelerate from the beginning but no one obviously gets a chance.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by Sin Hombre » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:30 am

Ideal xi I want to see after the WC with view to 2020/2023

Rahul, Shaw/Mayank, Kohli, Gill, Shankar/Iyer, Pant, Hardik, Gopal, Nagarkoti/Saini, Kuldeep, Bumrah.


Going into the WC and knowing the team management, our best hopes are

Rohit, Dhawan, Kohli, Shankar, Dhoni, Kedar, Hardik, Bhuvi, Kuldeep, Shami, Bumrah

Team bats until 8. Dhawan is not as selfish as Rohit and if he can click into form, we should have a chance.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by Atithee » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:53 am

@SH—you are absolutely right. I think I commented about a month ago about Rohit’s batting. The opener’s job is to score at a fast clip, not at snail’s pace forcing others to take unnecessary risks to maintain a decent run rate. Regardless of how he catches up at the end, he’s caused irreversible damage at the top. It’s madness.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by Atithee » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:57 am

This is what I wrote about Rohit in January; as usual, the elephant in the room was made to look like an adorable swan in responses.

Re: India in Australia, 2018-2019
Post Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:36 am

I remember a statistic on the screen that India produced the worst lowest runs ever in the first powerplay. Not taking singles and dealing in boundaries is never a good idea. Rohit, for all his greatness, had 64 dot balls. That’s ten plus freaking overs! I don’t care that his eventual SR catches up, but his painful slow start builds so much pressure on the other batsmen. Come on, 20% of total quota eaten up by one batsman? Add Dhoni’s futility to this, and we know what ails us. I hope I read those numbers right.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by prasen9 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:59 am

Atithee wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:59 am
India were only six runs behind (223 vs. 229) at the fall of seventh wicket almost at the same point (45.6 and 45.5 overs). Barely a difference. It’s easy to see why we should only play batsmen who can bowl except Bumrah. They ended up with 272 and we ended up with 237.
This is true. If we had people who could bat, then we would have chosen them. Except our top 3, everyone else is a flawed batsman. Krunal Pandya has a list-A average or 32 and a SR of 82. He cannot bat in ODIs. He can play small cameos. Jadeja's batting has also gone down the drain. We ended up with 237 because we do not have batsmen. Just calling Pandya and Jadeja batsmen does not make them so. If you choose bits and pieces batsmen you can get to 237 but not to 337. For that you need batsmen who could score 50s.
Look at Kuldeep’s and Chahal’s returns in the last two matches too.
So by that token, we should look at Kohli's too? And drop him? Look at Vijay's numbers and drop him? Pant's numbers and drop him? I would rather look at their career numbers and not just two matches.
Still want to vote for Prasen XI? Be my Atithee! :D
That you can but you will be with players like Krunal who cannot bat and cannot bowl ;-)



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by prasen9 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:03 am

In my eyes, Rohit dug our grave in this match. If Atithee, Sin Hombre and I agree, then it must be right ;-)

Rohit has always been selfish. That is the only way he can play. Because he cannot hit from the word go or take singles at a regular clip, he was moved to be an opener because he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. People like Vijay never really got a chance.

I agree with Sin Hombre's first XI for the WC. That is most possibly what we will turn out.

Also in India, we have consistently had more problems than abroad in ODIs in the last one or two years. All series have been close because of flat wickets and shorter grounds. In England, our bowlers will get some assistance. So, we should be better.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by Atithee » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:09 am

Whatever. :damn:

I give up. Keep talking about averages and arguing while we will keep laying eggs. But, hey, who cares, tamasha is about to start in a week. It’ll be all hunky dory. Foreigners will continue to get rich in pockets and learning how to counter Indians. While us; we will just get from bad to worse. We don’t need any further evidence than knowing that Indian team is possibly the worst players of spin and the best spinners in the world are not Indians. Who’d have thunk that!

Let’s just keep our heads buried in sand and keep trying the same recipe over and over. The stink quotient of the dish will keep varying but it won’t turn into a dessert!
Last edited by Atithee on Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by Atithee » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:11 am

prasen9 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:03 am
In my eyes, Rohit dug our grave in this match. If Atithee, Sin Hombre and I agree, then it must be right ;-)
LOL! That’s indeed rare. Ergo, it is proven beyond any doubt now.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by prasen9 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:10 am

Atithee wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:09 am
Let’s just keep our heads buried in sand and keep trying the same recipe over and over. The stink quotient of the dish will keep varying but it won’t turn into a dessert!
I agree with your principle and have for a long time. We need to read the riot act to all our bowlers. Kuldeep, Bumrah, Shami, Bhuvi, Chahal, Jadeja, everyone. Just like we have done with fielding. We have to do it with batting. You need to bat beyond a certain minimum level. That is all of these players must be told to start averaging 10 runs/innings say at least in tests and ODIs in order to be continued to be picked. The day of specialist bowlers is over. There can be specialist batsmen because batsmen do not need to bowl. There can be a specialist wicket-keeper. But bowlers all need to bat and we need them to show that at least they are improving. The Indian team pays no focus to that. Unfortunately.

All I am saying is that while agreeing in principle, we need to actually choose players who can bat. If you propose an XI such as:

Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli, Dhoni, Rayudu, Kedar, Manish, Rahane, Raina, Shankar, Bumrah

Maybe. Worth a shot. We get Bumrah, Raina, Kedar, Kedar and Shankar bowl. All of these players should be told to start off as if it is a 20-20. We aim at 100 runs over the par for the ground. Maybe we will have a chance of a win.

Replace Rayudu and Rahane with Karthik and Iyer if you like. Fine. Pant for Dhoni. But, we need batsmen who can score 50s. Big hitters who score 20s and 30s are not that useful. I have lost faith in Jadeja's batting. Krunal never seems like he can play a long innings. Vijay seems shakier now although he started with a bang. Pant is too aggressive and needs calibration. That is all I am saying.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by Atithee » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:42 am

Prasen, ok. Glad that we agree in principle. Yes, we could have different choices. The only other thing I want to add is that we don’t always need 50s; for instance, today. So, having everyone who can bat can be crucial in some matches. Look at who scored at the end for Australia today—their premier bowlers. We should set the same expectation.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by prasen9 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:16 pm

Yes, absolutely. We do not need 50s from the #9-11 say. We need them to average over 10; that is doable with some diligent practice. We also need them to be able to bowl at say 5.75/over and say 1.5 wickets/match if they only want to bat cameos. For #1-7, we need them to be able to contribute 50s especially if we are going to compromise on the bowling-side.

I want to force the bowlers to learn to bat. You want to choose the allrounders and hope they can bowl.

Australia has people like Stoinis and Faulkner. We have Hardik, who himself is flaky. Bangladesh has Shakib. Even Afghanistan have Nabi and Rashid. England have Ali, Woakes, Stokes. Not to talk about Curran. Sri Lanka has Matthews. New Zealand has Santner. WI has Holder. Zimbabwe's is Raza. Then, there are Grandhomme, Phelukwayo, etc. We need to produce more allrounders.

Vijay should not be just lauded for his batting. He should be asked to improve his bowling.

All their (Aussie, English) bowlers can bat *and* bowl. This does not happen in a vacuum. They have been planning for a long time. It is high time we do too.



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