India in South Africa, January 2018

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prasen9
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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by prasen9 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:12 am

From time to time, it is good to see how the team is regenerating. So, I check the age distribution. For this T20I team, the following are the:

Oldies: Dhoni(36), Karthik, Dhawan(32), Raina(31), Rohit(30)
Young: Kuldeep(23), Axar, Bumrah, Pandya(24), Rahul(25)

Rest are middle-aged.

My XI: Rohit, Kohli, Manish, Raina, Dhoni, Karthik, Pandya, Bhuvi, Kuldeep, Chahal, Bumrah

Dhawan has never figured out T20s very much. I would "rest" him.

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by PKBasu » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:08 am

Kohli has been breathtakingly brilliant right through this South Africa tour, but was impeccable in the ODIs. He was dismissed just once by bowlers before making a century (when he made 75).

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by Sin Hombre » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:17 pm

prasen9 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:52 am
Wriddhiman Saha, List-A average 42, SR don't know. In T20s, his SR is 130 which is sort of mediocre, I guess. :p
Too old and Dhoni won't leave. I also doubt his SR is significant.
Kedar Jadhav, List-A average 47.41, SR 107. Which is why I think he should be continued a few more games unless someone else is really breaking down the door.
Batting wise, he hasn't been terrible. Average of 40 at 107 SR is very good.

His poor catching and fielding is what costs him, and he is not a good enough 5th/6th bowler; and his age means that he is unlikely to improve from here on.
Ex-India player Gurkeerat comes closest. 43.33@87.1. He would be pretty good as a sixth bowler.
Think Gurkeerat is in the bin after his poor international start and inability to do well in the IPL. Discarded fairly or unfairly as someone who can't do it against international level bowlers.
prasen9 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:17 pm
Manoj Tiwary would have been a good #4 for his times had he been given a fair run. However, he was not the hard-hitting types that Sin Hombre and the Australians seem to want. I think SR is given too much importance. We need a player who can hit if wanted and take singles at will. Kohli and Raina fit this bill. They can also stay at the wicket --- more so Kohli than Raina. If we don't have that, we need to get at least those that average ~35 in List-As and not the ~30 types who can hit hard. Australia is unsettled because they chose SR in Mitch Marsh and Maxwell but these folks are not very good if the pitch gives something to the bowler. Don't know if George Bailey is too old and not as consistent now but he was dropped earlier than he should have been and that is why the Aussies are having to look for a batsman with some backbone now.
I am looking at England in ODIs more than Aus, they have a significantly worse top order than us but are at worst the second best ODI team around.

Buttler, Morgan, Ali, Woakes seems to be working out well with Buttler having an average of 37 at almost 120 SR.


Narayan Jagadeesan seems to be have reasonable stats but very early days for him.

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by prasen9 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:36 am

Of course, after Dhoni, we won't go to Saha in LOIs. It will be someone quite young.

It is possible that Gurkeerat is not ready. He hardly got any chances though. If you go by that evidence, when Kohli started his average was 30 odd and in tests too we persisted with him. Of course, we knew he was mentally very tough (played after his dad's death, etc.) and had very good potential. Gurkeerat will never be Kohli but the question is whether he can be better than the ones we are using. Worth a try.

Kedar will never be a Yuvraj with the ball but people do not prepare for him and if we are playing two wrist-spinners, he comes in and is something quite different. He keeps line and length and ekes out 3-4 overs and that is all we may need from a sixth bowlers. Yes, he will get worked out soon if he starts taking wickets regularly and then be ineffective. Fielding is a mess. Don't know how much value to subtract for that.

If you want just pure strike rates, it would be Krunal Pandya in the IPL. And, then Pant.

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by Observer » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:35 pm

Really good comeback by Indian batsmen after a suboptimal performance by the top 4. A great innings by Pandey along with a typical Dhoni gem. Dhoni's ability to thrive under pressure is unparalleled.

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by PKBasu » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:49 pm

Manish Pandey is dropped at the slightest chance, but he grabs his opportunities whenever they briefly come his way.

Chahal is being overbowled with the wet ball, and that 23-run over is basically the match.

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by prasen9 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:15 pm

Manish Pandey should be a regular in the T20 side.

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by Observer » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:53 pm

Pandey averages 51+ in first class cricket and is already 28. Karun Nair seeems to have similar stats and age is fast catching up with him. Im sure there must be other such cases, there is so much underutilized talent in cricket. I wonder if there is a good way to utilize that talent. IPL style leagues bridge the gap to a certain extent but some of these guys deserve to be recognized as world class talents.

In cricket the team selection is subject to subjectivity so some of these guys would go through their careers without ever being a fair opportunity. Murali Karthik is one such example, he could have become a legend had his playing years not overlapped with Kumble and Bhajji. Team sports are so much more brutal in some ways, in individual sports the players atleast have the satisfaction of knowing that they didn't make it big because they lost.

Are there any out of the box solutions for cases like these. Maybe emigrating to New zealand and playing for them :D. Perhaps the absence of these boundaries and a an even distribution of talent is why pro league competitions eventually become more important than the ones between countries in most sports.

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by prasen9 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:31 am

Fantastic innings by Dhoni too.

The Indian FC XI that has not got a regular place would read: Vihari, Iyer, Nair, Bawne apart from Manish. Actually, in fact, all four have performed better than him and have found no place.

We need test status for India-A?

The stalwarts of the domestics wrt batting who did not get a fair run would be: Ajay Sharma, Sugwekar, KC Ibrahim, Surendra Bhave, etc.

Playing for a different country happens all the time in the Olympics.

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by Varma » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:16 am

K.P.Bhaskar was another profilic run-getter in domestics who never got to play an international match. The one match he was selected into playing XI turned out to be a washout. All this is from vague memory, so I maybe wrong with some of my claims.

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by prasen9 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:45 am

Yes, Bhaskar Pillai was an excellent bat. As was Saba Karim, the keeper. Among the real oldies, there was Uday Merchant. Badrinath did not get a fair run either.

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by Observer » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:38 pm

prasen9 wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:31 am
We need test status for India-A?
I remember how Australian Boards presidents 11 would dominate touring Indian teams a couple of decades back. Their A team would have beaten most test sides. Now that you mention this it feels great that Indian cricket has reached that stage.

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by prasen9 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:26 pm

Yes, I felt bad for Brad Hodge.

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by PKBasu » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:12 pm

Strangely, India drop both wrist spinners for the series (and tour) decider at Newlands. Kohli is also out injured (bad back). Axar Patel is playing instead, perhaps to strengthen the batting.

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Re: India in South Africa, January 2018

Post by PKBasu » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:53 pm

India's batsmen have hammered the pacers but struggled against the spinners today. South Africa are playing 3 today (Shamsi, Duminy and Phangiso). But oddly, India are playing just one specialist spinner (plus Raina and Rohit as part-timers). A good over off Shamsi at last takes India to 102/2 off 12 overs, but India were slowed down in the middle phase of the innings (after starting off at well over 9 an over, getting to 57 in the first 6 overs).

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