Parimarjan Negi - Asian Champion 2012

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Parimarjan Negi - Asian Champion 2012

Post by Kumar »

Probably little early to have a thread for a player who just became a IM... But his recent performances have made him the most anticipated player in a while..

http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/08/stories ... 431700.htm
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Parimarjan Negi - Player Thread

Post by Varma »

I think he deserves his own thread. Moderators, please move the posts discussing him from Hastings thread to here.

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Negi

Post by mugu »

What ChessBase had to say about the prodigy:
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2852
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Parimarjan Negi - Player Thread

Post by kujo »

According to the hindu article http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/12/stories ... 762100.htm

titled Negi ready for tougher challenges

"In the current World Rating list, Negi's tally is 2396 but after his gains from Hastings it has effectively risen to 2420. To become a Grandmaster, Negi needs two more norms and a rating of 2500. "


Shouldn't it be 2441?? I hope their calculations are wrong!! :)


-kujo
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Parimarjan Negi - Player Thread

Post by Babloo »

kujoku wrote:According to the hindu article http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/12/stories ... 762100.htm

titled Negi ready for tougher challenges

"In the current World Rating list, Negi's tally is 2396 but after his gains from Hastings it has effectively risen to 2420. To become a Grandmaster, Negi needs two more norms and a rating of 2500. "


Shouldn't it be 2441?? I hope their calculations are wrong!! :)


-kujo
It is right that his rating is indeed 2420. Kujo, I can see that you've added 45 points to his current rating of 2396 (as per January 2006 list) to arrive at 2441.

Parimarjan played at Hastings with a rating of 2352 (as per the October rating list). His gains from the last three months had raised it to 2396 since FIDE did not consider 20 points he lost in the Asian Youth (under-14) championship in December in New Delhi.

Therefore, if Parimarjan's effective rating at the beginning of Hastings Masters was around 2375, the gain of 45 points from Hastings makes it 2420 at present. Needless to add, the yougster will continue to play all tournaments till the end of March 2006 with a rating of 2396.

I hope this clears your doubt.

Have a nice day!
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Parimarjan Negi - Player Thread

Post by kujo »

Babloo wrote: It is right that his rating is indeed 2420. Kujo, I can see that you've added 45 points to his current rating of 2396 (as per January 2006 list) to arrive at 2441.

Parimarjan played at Hastings with a rating of 2352 (as per the October rating list). His gains from the last three months had raised it to 2396 since FIDE did not consider 20 points he lost in the Asian Youth (under-14) championship in December in New Delhi.
Thanks for clearing that up! :)

I wish that the FIDE rating which is quarterly, be accurate and include all tournaments played by that player at the end of previous month!!

It is done once every quarter, we are not asking for a monthly update on these ratings! I am not being picky here, the ratings need to be accurate and timely in order for the expected ratings at which a player plays to be correct!!

Also, this is especially important for people on the border of a rating cutoff for "K changes"! Let me explain a bit here: Assume that the Jan rating for Negi is 2401 due to some extra 5 rating points he got in a tournament in Nov (instead of the current 2396).

He will play the next 3 months with a K value of 10 instead of 15 and any performance improvements will be very slow (as is the case with performance decreases, I know).... If the FIDE rating were to be accurate and up-to-date, they would have included the negative change of 20 rating points (lost in Asian Youth championships) to arrive at 2381 instead!! Which is what it should really be for Negi, to start with.


cheers,
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Parimarjan Negi - Player Thread

Post by kujo »

According to Rediff article: http://us.rediff.com/sports/2006/jan/20negi.htm

Parimarjan Negi today drew with black pieces against GM Ziaz Murshed of Bangladesh and needs only a win tomorrow to secure his second GM-norm in the successive tournaments.


Negi seems to be closing in on his second GM norm and seems to be on course for the youngest ever Grandmaster title!!! :)
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Parimarjan Negi - Player Thread

Post by nata »

Yes. Negi has 6 points from 8 rounds (At joint 9th with 13 others in a field of 314 players).

He plays Dibyendu Barua in the next round.
All the best for him.. :goodluck:
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Parimarjan Negi - Player Thread

Post by kujo »

That rediff article might be a bit misleading though... This tournament is not quite an "International one" and the player ratings are not that high!!

Here is a relevant table from the FIDE web site:

11 rounds, including 6 title-holders, minimum 9 rated
9 2381-2389 2231-2239 2181-2189 2031-2039
8.5 2390-2425 2240-2275 2190-2225 2040-2075
8 2426-2467 2276-2317 2226-2267 2076-2117
7.5 2468-2498 2318-2348 2268-2298 2118-2148
7 2499-2535 2349-2385 2299-2335 2149-2185
6.5 2536-2564 2386-2414 2336-2364 2186-2214
6 2565-2600 2415-2450 2365-2400 2215-2250
5.5 2601-2636 2451-2486 2401-2436 2251-2286
5 2637-2665 2487-2515 2437-2465 2287-2315
4.5 2666-2702 2516-2552 2466-2502 2316-2352
4 >=2703 >=2553 >=2503 >=2353


The first two columns are of interest if you are trying to make a GM norm. According to this table, Negi has to win all of his remaining 3 matches to make the norm. i.e) He has to score 9 points at the end of 11 rounds of play.

Also, this is true only if he meets two more foreign players in rounds 10 and 11 and the average rating of his opponents remains above 2381!! Currently his opponents' rating is around 2376!!

Disclaimer:
This is all according to what I researched so far... It takes sooooo much time to do this, why can't it be any simpler?? :D

Make your own conclusions!!


cheers,
-Kujo
Last edited by kujo on Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Parimarjan Negi - Player Thread

Post by kujo »

OOhhh, by the way, I did all the work to figure out his current rating change as well and forgot to post that.

At the end of 8 rounds of play Negi's average opponet rating is 2365 and his playing performance is around 2558!! Remember, he needs to show a rating performance of 2500+ ((at some point during the tournament) in order to get the GM title...

His current rating change is: 25.2 (positive). :goodluck: for rest of the tournament Negi!!


cheers,
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Parimarjan Negi - Player Thread

Post by kujo »

kujoku wrote:The first two columns are of interest if you are trying to make a GM norm. According to this table, Negi has to win all of his remaining 3 matches to make the norm. i.e) He has to score 9 points at the end of 11 rounds of play.
Well.... I got the number of rounds wrong!! There are only 10 rounds in the 4th Parsvnath International Open tournament. So the FIDE table that is of interest would be:

10 rounds, including 5 title-holders, minimum 8 rated
8 2381-2407
7.5 2408-2451
7 2452-2490
6.5 2491-2528

I still doubt whether Negi would be able to make the second GM norm. But the Hindu article written today, seems to think that a Negi win on Sunday would be enough to make the norm. :)

According to: http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/22/stories ... 111700.htm

Young Parimarjan Negi continued to play above himself. The 12-year-old proved equal to Barua, his fifth GM rival in six rounds, and kept alive his chances of a second successive GM-norm. Negi, with 6.5 points, needs a victory over S. Kidambi on Sunday.



So we wait and see then..... :goodluck: Negi!!


cheers,
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Parimarjan Negi - Player Thread

Post by kujo »

Well, Negi won his last round with black pieces!! :D His score is 7.5 out of 10 rounds of play.

His average opponent rating according to the tournament site is 2381, but it is 2388 according to my claculations. His rating change is 25 according to the website, while my calculations show 36!!

Did he get the second GM norm? Is he going to be the youngest GM ever?? Does anyone care reporting on this news?! Not just reporting, but reporting accurately!!!


Regardless, it is a fantastic performance by Negi!! :bounce: :bounce: Congrats Negi!!

cheers,
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Parimarjan Negi - Player Thread

Post by kujo »

According to DNA India report from today http://dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1009118&CatID=6 Negi has got his second GM norm!!! :bounce: :bounce:

Typical chess players take years to achieve a GM norm, let alone two GM norms. Negi has achieved both GM norms in successive tournaments within a span of few weeks!! :D

Awesome!! CONGRATULATIONS Negi!!! :notworthy: :notworthy:
Negi gets second GM norm: Chess wonderkind Parimarjan Negi caused a flutter by clinching his second Grandmaster norm after a fine victory in the final round of the fourth Parsvnath International Open Chess tournament in New Delhi on Sunday.

His achievement overshadowed top seed Alexei Fedorov’s winning run to the title at the Bapu Samaj Sewa Kendra. Negi defeated S Kidambi with black pieces in around four hours to earn the norm in successive tournaments. His first norm came at Hastings in England last month.
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Parimarjan Negi - Player Thread

Post by Kumar »

Wow ... You go Negi... He seems to have gr8 potential... :bounce:
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Parimarjan Negi's second GM norm

Post by Babloo »

[quote="kujoku"]Well, Negi won his last round with black pieces!! :D His score is 7.5 out of 10 rounds of play.

His average opponent rating according to the tournament site is 2381, but it is 2388 according to my claculations. His rating change is 25 according to the website, while my calculations show 36!!

Did he get the second GM norm? Is he going to be the youngest GM ever?? Does anyone care reporting on this news?! Not just reporting, but reporting accurately!!!


Regardless, it is a fantastic performance by Negi!! :bounce: :bounce: Congrats Negi!!
cheers,
------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Kujo,

Your calculations are right and so is the rating change shown on the tournament site.

The Swiss Manager programme used by the organisers takes the quotient as 10 (K-10) for every rated player.Those who are yet to touch the rating of 2400, add 50% to it (that is K-15) to reach their correct rating gain/loss.

Since Negi is still short of 2400 (as per rating list he is still 2396) the chart shows a gain of 24 points (as per K-10). So you add 50% of 24 which is 12 to it and reach 36. That was what you got. Great!

Secondly, when a GM norm requirements are calculated for a player, a rating of a maximum of two opponents (whose rating is less than 2250) is calculated at 2250. In the case of Negi, his first three opponents had the following ratings:

Round 1 : Santosh Baala 1971
Round 2 : Soumya Swaminathan 2156
Round 3: N. Srinath 2160

Therefore, as per the provisions of GM norm calcutions, the ratings of Santosh and Soumya were taken as 2250 while calcutaing the average of 10 opponents at the end of the tournament.

On the site, the average of Negi's 10 rivals is shown as 2381. But it goes up to over 2410 when calculating for the norm. If the average rating was indeed 2381 then Negi would have required 8/10. Since his average category when up by one, 7.5 was enough.

I fully agree with you that FIDE norm calculations are more complex than the game itself. Sometimes, the rules are too flexible and defy all logic.

And one more thing. Negi cannot be the youngest ever GM in the world. Sergey Karjakin became a Grandmaster at the age of 12 years and seven months. Negi will turn 13 on Feb. 9.

But he can still become the youngest GM presently in the game, if not in the history, by breaking the record of Magnus Carlsen. If my memory serves me right, Carlsen gained his final norm in Dubai Open in 2004 at the age of 13 years and five months and 27 days.

For the benefit of our chess followers, I am giving below the chart of youngest GMs as given by Chessbase site. You'll notice that Karjakin's record is given as 13 years, three months and 27 days (which I think is not correct).

Youngest grandmaster in history
No. Player Nat. years months days year
1 Sergey Karjakin UKR 12 7 0 2002
2 Magnus Carlsen NOR 13 3 27 2004
3 Bu Xiangzhi CHN 13 10 13 1999
4 Teimour Radjabov AZE 14 0 14 2001
5 Ruslan Ponomaryov UKR 14 0 17 1997
6 Etienne Bacrot FRA 14 2 0 1997
7 Maxime Vachier-Lagrave FRA 14 4 0 2005
8 Peter Leko HUN 14 4 22 1994
9 Yuri Kuzubov UKR 14 7 12 2004
10 Nguyen Ngoc Truong Son VIE 14 10 0 2004
11 Hikaru Nakamura USA 15 2 19 2003
12 Pentala Harikrishna IND 15 3 5 2001
13 Koneru Humpy IND 15 4 28 2002
14 Judit Polgar HUN 15 4 28 1991
15 Alejandro Ramirez CRI 15 5 14 2003
16 Bobby Fischer USA 15 6 1 1958

Other famous chess prodigies and records
Paul Morphy, 1837-1884, beat Johann Löwenthal 3-0 at age 12.

José Raúl Capablanca, 1888-1942, learned chess at the age of four, beat his country's chess champion in a match when he was 13, and eventually became world champion (see above).

Samuel Reshevsky, learned the rules at the age of 4, and gave simultaneous exhibitions at the age of six (see above).

Arturo Pomar played in the Spanish Championship at age 10 and became a master at age 13. He drew Alekhine in Gijon in 1944 at the age of 13.

Boris Spassky became an International Grandmaster at 18 and went on to become world champion.

Bobby Fischer became US Champion at the age of 14 and a world championship candidate at 15. He went on to become world champion.

Henrique Mecking of Brazil learned the game at 6, gave some simultaneous displays at 9, won the Brazilian championship at 13, and South American Zonal at 14, and became an IM at 15. He won two Interzonal Tournaments in a row, at 21 and 24.

Anatoly Karpov became a grandmaster at 18 and went on to become world champion.

Garry Kasparov became a grandmaster at 17 and went on to become the youngest ever world champion (at 22).

Nigel Short finished joint first in the British Championship at the age of 14.

Viswanathan Anand became India's first International Grandmaster at 18 and went on to become the FIDE knockout world champion.

Michael Adams became an International Master at 15 and a grandmaster at 17.

Pentala Harikrishna became India's youngest grandmaster at 15.

Gata Kamsky had an Elo rating of 2650 at the age of 16.

Luke McShane won the World Under-10 Championship at the age of eight.

Ruslan Ponomariov became the youngest ever FIDE knockout world champion at the age of 18.

Alejandro Ramirez became a grandmaster at 15, a month earlier than Fischer. He is the first grandmaster ever in Central America.

Magnus Carlsen became the second-youngest grandmaster in history at 13, and broke Fischer's record by becoming a world championship candidate at 15 years and one month.

As of this writing (January 2006) Parimarjan Negi has achieved five IM norms and one GM norm. He is twelve years old.

Mona Khaled achieved the WIM title and two WGM norms in 2005, when she was eleven years old. At the same time she won both the Arabian and the African Girls Junior Championship in the under 20 group in 2005, although she was the youngest player in both tournments.

Kujo, there are people who care to report, that too, accurately.

I am sure you'll appreciate any sincere effort.

Cheers,

Babloo
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