Indian Athletics Thread ...

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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by jayakris »

Mugundan wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 9:52 am I will take these performances, as usual, only with a pinch (a kilo possibly) of salt!
But since this is better than your hints at some other occasions before, I will take it for now that these two guys Abdulla Aboobaker and Karthik Unnikrishnan are non-vegetarians who don't touch any spinach! Salt is fine.
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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by Mugundan »

The male triple jumpers and long jumpers in both sections have done exceptionally well this season. These two crossing 17 metres, however, still came as a surprise. Confirmation that vegetarian diet could still be working at least in the case of triple jumpers came last evening in the Grosseto meet where Praveen Chithravel jumped 16.19 for sixth. His series X, 16.19, 16.08, 15.96, 15.92, pass.
This season, at home he has 16.84. Last season he had 16.88. Obviously something is wrong. There is no indication he is injured (normal excuse) or ill since he has taken five jumps, passing only the last when he must have realised he is dipping further and it would be futile.
In the same meet, Jeswin Aldrin did 7.82m for 2nd in long jump. Very decent but considering he had done 8.26m at home this season (8.37w in the same competition final at Tenhipalam, Kerala), this came as a disappointment.
At Loughborough International, Jyothi Yarraji clocked another national record in the women's 100m hurdles, 13.12s. Fabulous timing for a 22 year-old who came into the scene only three years ago. It is unfair to doubt every other athletes, but the past examples prove in a large majority of the cases spinach works beyond imagination!
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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by prasen9 »

50% of all athletes all over the world dope. So, it is fair game to suspect everyone if it is a coin-toss. As long as we do not say we are certain when there is some reasonable doubt, we can question. When things are beyond even reasonable doubt, we should call it out.

Maybe I should give my students a term project to build an anomaly detector which will flag largely spurious results. Usually, when I think of things, they have already been done. :-) Does anyone know of a website that points out big anomalies and tries to quantify probabilities?
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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by Mugundan »

When an athlete posts a top result or a national record in a domestic competition and then fails in a major global championship, doubts start cropping up. When this happens repeatedly, you are certain it is doping. In some cases they do get caught by anti-doping agencies; many others escape, win medals, become famous, are feted, gain enormous incentive wards and retire. It is not at all difficult to gather details of performance (World Athletics website has all the results of all the athletes) of various athletes, note their progression and notice abnormal results. Say a triple jumper crosses 17 metres and then comes down to 16.10 or a shot putter does 21.00m and then comes down to 18-19-plus, it becomes clear. It gets clearer if he or she does it regularly or else fails miserably in an Olympics with one of the lowest marks in his or her career. Normally such performances would be explained by "I was injured" (then why make it?) or "I had some personal problems". There could be genuine injury issues also.
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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by sameerph »

Mugundan wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 12:10 pm The male triple jumpers and long jumpers in both sections have done exceptionally well this season. These two crossing 17 metres, however, still came as a surprise. Confirmation that vegetarian diet could still be working at least in the case of triple jumpers came last evening in the Grosseto meet where Praveen Chithravel jumped 16.19 for sixth. His series X, 16.19, 16.08, 15.96, 15.92, pass.
This season, at home he has 16.84. Last season he had 16.88. Obviously something is wrong. There is no indication he is injured (normal excuse) or ill since he has taken five jumps, passing only the last when he must have realised he is dipping further and it would be futile.
In the same meet, Jeswin Aldrin did 7.82m for 2nd in long jump. Very decent but considering he had done 8.26m at home this season (8.37w in the same competition final at Tenhipalam, Kerala), this came as a disappointment.
At Loughborough International, Jyothi Yarraji clocked another national record in the women's 100m hurdles, 13.12s. Fabulous timing for a 22 year-old who came into the scene only three years ago. It is unfair to doubt every other athletes, but the past examples prove in a large majority of the cases spinach works beyond imagination!
Jyoti Yarraji's last 2 national marks have come at a foreign meet. So, her results are more reliable I guess. I thing she still needs to cut down a few seconds to be world class standard or at least to win a medal ( possibly gold ) at Asian games.
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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by Mugundan »

She looks good at this stage. Yes, she could be a medal contender at the Asian level. Her two national records (13.23 and 13.11) have come in meets abroad. We don't know though whether there was any dope testing at these meets. One will wait for a year or more to see where she is headed. Right now, she looks set for bigger accomplishments.
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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by sameerph »

Another national record in women's 100M hurdles by Jyoti Yarraji today 13.04 sec in a meet in Netherlands. 3 national records in 3 meets in Europe is good stuff.
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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by jayakris »

^^^ Hmmm, I should start to be gruntled about her :)
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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by Mugundan »

sameerph wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:23 pm Another national record in women's 100M hurdles by Jyoti Yarraji today 13.04 sec in a meet in Netherlands. 3 national records in 3 meets in Europe is good stuff.
Her hurdling is superb; her record-breaking spree is unbelievabe! Is she being dope-tested in all these meets? That will remain the question until we get an official confirmation which may never come!
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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by sameerph »

Yes, hurdling seems really flawless. This is video of her last run -

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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by indiansportsfan »

But she seems to have done even better (13.03) 2 years back in a University meet, so it seems that her performance has actually plateaued last couple of years, which is not a good sign. I have lesser concerns about her doping, because she seems to be training in the right places, and not doing something on her own.
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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by Sin Hombre »

Her career progression is very normal so I don't have concerns about her doping either.

The unfortunate reality is that with this progression, her best would be an Asiad gold, CWG medal and an Olympic final, which we haven't had many of so we'll take it but I was really hoping we would see more athletes progressing at Olympic top-5 level after Neeraj.

Hima Das unfortunately went fully into the minor celebrity life after 2019 and Kamalpreet unsurprisingly was caught doping.

Priya Mohan is probably the only one close to a top-5/10 ranking/progression for her age but lots of doubts on the usage of spinach for it.

Any other youngsters doing well, with world class prospects?
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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by sameerph »

Sin Hombre wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 9:08 am Any other youngsters doing well, with world class prospects?
At the moment Long jumpers and triple jumpers showing that kind of promise but as you said doubts on spinach usage there too.

Next hope could be Long jumper Shaili Singh who won silver world under 20 championships last year.
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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by Mugundan »

Jyothi Yarraji's improvement has been phenomenal. From 13.91 in 2019 to 13.04 for the latest. Her hurdling looks flawless; her speed is bound to improve.
Can there be a doubt at all?
The only issue for me is lack of dope-testing at home. From Feb 2020 till April 2022, she had not been tested even once out of competition in India by NADA. Perhaps they will pick up now onwards. She was tested in-competition once in India this season before she took off for the European tour.
Once she stabilises irrespetive of testing, one can look forward to a bright future for her, even if it may be confined to Asian level. Otherwise they all drop in performance in international championships.
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Re: Indian Athletics Thread ...

Post by sameerph »

This is a nice article on Jyoti-

Racing across Europe, breaking records: How hurdler Jyothi Yarraji rewrote NR thrice in 16 days
Hillier did not want Jyothi to go through that ordeal again. He ran around the arena and the car park but could not find anyone from the Dutch anti-doping agency [Doping Authority Netherlands]. Jyothi had 24 hours from the time of her race to be tested to ratify the record.

"It was a national holiday [Hemelvaartsdag (Ascension Day)]. I was ringing up the Dutch anti-doping agency but no one would come because it was a holiday!" recalls Hillier. "The next morning [Friday] I was frantically ringing around and finally got the number of the head of the Dutch anti-doping agency. I called him to find out that he was on a run in the middle of the forest! We couldn't get any [cell phone] reception and we could not hear each other.

"Eventually we managed to find a male doping control office," he says - but there was yet another hurdle - "we needed a drive to his house and needed a female chaperone to take Jyothi to the washroom."

The two of them then drove three hours to reach the official's house and they were greeted with some good news: the official had managed to find a female chaperone. "This official basically got his neighbour, who happened to be a nurse, to chaperone Jyothi. We got the test done just within 24 hours of her race - in 22 hours. I was a little stressed because I know how much it meant to Jyothi. I'm glad we got the test done," he says.
So, it is confirmed there that Jyoti did take a dope test in Europe after her race.
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