Indian Volleyball

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srini
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by srini »

Yeaaa, we at least medaled a bronze. Back in 2003 i think our boys actually won at Asian level and got Silver at World level which actually made us situp and take notice of the achievement by starting a thread here(for God's sake it was the only time we won against Iran in Volleyball at world level and it was a repeat of their performance at Asian level the same year earlier.) What ever this is definitely a good start. Hopefully federation becomes wise,sorts out the mess it is in and utilizes the budding talent!
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by Sin Hombre »

Brazil only had one player develop into international class from that team that beat us in the u19 finals in 2003.

You need to have sustained success at u19 level to get anywhere.
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by jayakris »

And Brazil had won some 5 of the previous 7 finals or something till that point. No wonder there was no space for those kids. But oddly, Brazil has never won the world u19 after that final against us. That was their last.

But your point is very well taken. You need to be at the top for a few editions of this to have a good senior team of even the world top-25 level. The seniors play for 6 to 8 years at the top level (age 23 to 30 or over). So only one or two guys from the junior team can make every year. In fact, I had personally gone and covered the 2007 final-16 in Tujuana/Mexicali in Mexico. Our team finished 8th in the world if I remember correctly. Only Ukkra Pandian from that team made the Indian senior team later, iirc. Maybe there was another player (Naveen?). Ukkra was good there too, but the star of that tournament for us, a Singh whose first name escapes me now, did not make our senior team later. I should go back and check my posts from that world-16.

But I am glad that we made the final-16 on merit once again after 12 years. We played the u19 final-16 in 2021 in Tehran, but that was only because a lot of teams withdrew due to Covid and they invited us (and we finished 10th out of 10 teams, I think). This time it was a legitimate run, and that is great to know.

(EDIT: It was Mandeep Singh who captained India in 2007. He was really good. He never made the Indian senior team, did he? By the way, here is my long report on my trip to Tijuana to report on India's 5 set loss to Argentina, and about having my passport, the car's battery and two Indian flags being stolen, and then one of Tijuana's finest ripping me off ti add insult to all the injuries!)
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by ornatebrute »

Some more good news.

Is this a volleyball revival season for India?
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by Atithee »

:rofl: calcification is the right word when playing against Iran.
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by jayakris »

^^^ Calcification round. That tweet above is hilarious!

The tweet is also inaccurate on the screwy format being used. See the wikipedia page. Basically 18 teams were placed in 6 pools of 3 each. The top 2 teams of each pool (so 12 total) make the knockout rounds. Just that only two pools' toppers (the pools of the home team Bahrain, pool A, and the pool of the top seed Iran, pool B) advance to the QF directly. There is a PQF round for 8 of the other 10 second place teams, and two second place teams get to QF directly to face the winners of pool A and pool B. So four second place teams get to play 4 pool toppers in PQF knockout, and two second place teams play the pool A and pool B winners in the QF. I believe a draw of lots places the second place teams against the 6 first place teams. Screwy format, but not unfair.

The unbelievable thing is our poor luck in all these pool draws. Sure enough, we end up with the top seed Iran. Japan is seeded very low by their standards at 13th, but they are always a tough team. Thank God we beat them!! Iran also has beaten them, so we have made sure that we will finish top-2 and will be in the knockout rounds.

When lots are taken from among the six 2nd place teams to fix opponents for the 6 first placers, the teams who already played them will not be chosen, so we have made sure that we will not face Iran in the QF. We could go up against any of the other first place teams (looks like Bahrain, S.Korea, China, Thailand, and BAN/IRQ/AUS)

By the way, unseeded Bangladesh beat the 4th seeded Iraq 3-1, and are leading that pool! The Iraqis beat the 7th seed Australia 3-1 too. If Bangladesh beats Australia too, they will top their pool. AUS can beat them 3-1, forcing a three-way tie for first place too!)

As for our match against Iran... Very strangely, after a very long time, I get a crazy hunch that probability theory will start working again and bring certainties back down to only deaths and taxes (on Wednesday 2 pm Bahrain). At least, it seems like we don't have a whole lot to lose in this match, and can just play freely. Win or lose doesn't really make much of a difference, I think. Would be nice to be in the QF straight though. And for a change, it is not in Tehran and more Indian support should be there for our team in Bahrain!
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by jayakris »

ornatebrute wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:43 amIs this a volleyball revival season for India?
To me also, it feels like a revival is around the corner. Maybe we had to sink to rock bottom and get calcified first. After calcification, it is revival, as we rise up like a phoenix to fly high :)
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by jayakris »

jayakris wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:57 amAs for our match against Iran... Very strangely, after a very long time, I get a crazy hunch that probability theory will start working again and bring certainties back down to only deaths and taxes
Probability theory and hunches,... Yeah, my posterior!

India l. Iran, 20-25, 10-25, 19-25

Look at the abject surrender. I mean, Japan, whom we beat handily, took these Iranians to 5 sets. For India though, not a chance in hell. 10-25 sets are not rare for us. Reaching 20 points in a set against Iran is the rarity.

Is there anything more weird than this in sports? Unbelievable.
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by Atithee »

Maybe we’re afraid that if we beat Iran, their women (one of the most beautiful in the world) will not like Indians. Yes, this has to be the reason.
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by jayakris »

jayakris wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:57 am By the way, unseeded Bangladesh beat the 4th seeded Iraq 3-1, and are leading that pool! The Iraqis beat the 7th seed Australia 3-1 too. If Bangladesh beats Australia too, they will top their pool. AUS can beat them 3-1, forcing a three-way tie for first place too!)
Bangladesh did lose to Australia but they took them to 5 sets, and so in a three-way tie among 1-1 teams, Bangladesh finished as the pool topper and Australia finished last. How about them Bangladeshis?
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by jayakris »

Pakistan beat Taiwan in 5 sets and finished second behind China in their pool, so PAK is also in the final 12 knockout with India and Bangaldesh. The teams that missed the knockout - Australia, Japan, Taiwan, Kuwait, Hong Kong. Good to see the three subcontinental teams doing better than them. I haven't seen the knockout draw to know whom we play next. It could be any of 5 first place teams - Bangladesh, China, Thailand, S.Korea or Bahrain. If it is Bahrain, it will be a QF. If not a PQF.
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by jayakris »

India has been drawn to play the hosts Bahrain in the knockout, so we are in the QF but are not assured of a top-8 finish. Bahrain vs India, Iran vs S.Arabia, S.Korea vs Pakistan, Thailand vs Iraq, Bangladesh vs Qatar, China vs UAE are the matchups decided by lots. The first 2 are QFs, the next 4 are PQFs. Thursday is rest day and the knockouts start on Friday.

So, if we beat BAH, we make the final-4... But if we lose, then two matches among the QF losers determine the 5-6th spots and everybody else fall to a 7-thru-12 place knockout bracket. So, if we lose to Bahrain and then the match against a QF loser, we fall to the 7th through 12 spots bracket. So, win one of the next two matches and we finish in the top-6. Win the next, and it is top-4. Lose both, and it is down to 7-thru-12 level. It is a screwy but fair knockout format.
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by usaindia »

India Beat Bahrain
25–22,25–19,26–28,26–24
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by jayakris »

^^^ and we play Thailand in the semis. A top-4 finish! ... Win the SF, and we make the world-16. The other semifinal is yet to be determined. Iran against the winner of Bangladesh vs Korea (QF). Korea beat Pakistan in the PQF and relegated them to paying the 9th spot match against Iraq.

EDIT: Bangladesh also lost to Korea and now plays for the 5th through 8th spots. So it is Korea vs Iran in the other semis.
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Re: Indian Volleyball

Post by prasen9 »

They are playing 25 matches in total and have 18 teams. So, essentially, they wanted a very lean tournament but not a knockout.

18 teams playing 2 matches each initially gives us 18 matches.

If they were playing 3 matches, then they would need 18x3/2 = 27 matches, which for whatever reason they did not want to play.

So, essentially you have a 7 match knockout. What is the best tournament you can design using that?
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