Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

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kujo
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Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by kujo »

Might as well start this thread now. I doubt India will do any better in Paris!!

ps: Knowing that we really did a lot better in Tokyo, after starting a similar thread about 5 years back (after Rio).... This will become an SI tradition now. :)
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by prasen9 »

We will do better in Paris wrt # of medals although progress always is not monotonic. The real issue is the number of golds. How many winners will we have? Who are the contenders? Sin Hombre? Sameer?
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by Omkara »

I can challenge that while Sin Hombre and Sameer may win gold in some other discipline of life, but they won't do so in any Olympic sports. Who are these guys? Haven't heard their names as medal contenders ever :D
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by rajitghosh »

From this Olympics we have quite a few who didn't win but will be medal prospects in the next Olympics:
Satvik-Chirag
Kamalpreet Kaur
Deepak Punia
Anshu Malik
Sonam Malik
They are all young and can do well next time. I have no hope left of the shooters and archers.

https://olympics.com/en/featured-news/i ... anu-bhaker

This is what Olympics.com has listed down. Surprisngly they still have hopes on the shooters and archers.
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by srini »

Pre mortem brings luck it seems as we add medals in sports that we weren't winning before like hockey, athletics.

Please add Aditi to the list, she did enough in 2 consecutive Olympics to be noticed.
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by usaindia »

we should hold break dancing competitions

https://www.essentiallysports.com/olymp ... pics-2020/
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by sameerph »

rajitghosh wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:02 am From this Olympics we have quite a few who didn't win but will be medal prospects in the next Olympics:
Satvik-Chirag
Kamalpreet Kaur
Deepak Punia
Anshu Malik
Sonam Malik
They are all young and can do well next time. I have no hope left of the shooters and archers.

https://olympics.com/en/featured-news/i ... anu-bhaker

This is what Olympics.com has listed down. Surprisngly they still have hopes on the shooters and archers.
If you have hopes from Deepak, Anshu and Sonam who also faltered in their first olympics, why not from Saurabh, Elavenil, Manu who also participated in their first olympics and fared better than these wrestlers.
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by srini »

Saurabh, definitely YES. But Rifle guys who can't shoot qualification scores and Manu with her jitters can be hardly called hopefuls unless they get their issues fixed by sports psychologists. Rifle shooters knew ahead they were not shooting the qualification scores, NRAI also i believe knew it but all these guys hoped they could somehow click, and it doesn't work out that way.

We either have the option of taking NRAI's self certification on their word that they are the best sports federation in India and keep hoping for some medals in Paris or look at stats and say oh well you have 4 medals to show for all time and you returned empty medals for 2 consecutive Olympics and show them the right place beside archers. Out of these 4 medals i believe Bindra and Gagan would have medaled despite the system. NRAI should realize putting in some static pre-defined formula that's heavily tilted towards name and fame from world cups and qualification quotas earned doesn't make it the best run federation in India. If they couldn't be dynamic and react to a black swan event like Covid affect of 1 year delayed Olympics, and not already have the scientific analysis of shots fired by shooters using any biometric devices attached to shooters body during the event, i don't hope nothing much changes for Paris.
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by jayakris »

^^^ Hard-hitting, but the truth!
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by rajitghosh »

sameerph wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:39 pm
rajitghosh wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:02 am From this Olympics we have quite a few who didn't win but will be medal prospects in the next Olympics:
Satvik-Chirag
Kamalpreet Kaur
Deepak Punia
Anshu Malik
Sonam Malik
They are all young and can do well next time. I have no hope left of the shooters and archers.

https://olympics.com/en/featured-news/i ... anu-bhaker

This is what Olympics.com has listed down. Surprisngly they still have hopes on the shooters and archers.
If you have hopes from Deepak, Anshu and Sonam who also faltered in their first olympics, why not from Saurabh, Elavenil, Manu who also participated in their first olympics and fared better than these wrestlers.
Inflated egos of shooters. I missed Aditi. Hopefully she'll win a medal next time.
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by prasen9 »

I do not think Aditi Ashok will win next time. Some shooter will.
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by kaustav »

sameerph wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:39 pm
rajitghosh wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:02 am From this Olympics we have quite a few who didn't win but will be medal prospects in the next Olympics:
Satvik-Chirag
Kamalpreet Kaur
Deepak Punia
Anshu Malik
Sonam Malik
They are all young and can do well next time. I have no hope left of the shooters and archers.

https://olympics.com/en/featured-news/i ... anu-bhaker

This is what Olympics.com has listed down. Surprisngly they still have hopes on the shooters and archers.
If you have hopes from Deepak, Anshu and Sonam who also faltered in their first olympics, why not from Saurabh, Elavenil, Manu who also participated in their first olympics and fared better than these wrestlers.
Yesss..Same question.. Paris 2024 will see the rise of Indian shooting..And we will find the trailer in 2022 Asian Games..Mark my words
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by rajitghosh »

Indian wrestlers have the most killer instinct (pun intended). It is proven. You need killer instinct to win medals.
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by sameerph »

srini wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:19 pm Saurabh, definitely YES. But Rifle guys who can't shoot qualification scores and Manu with her jitters can be hardly called hopefuls unless they get their issues fixed by sports psychologists. Rifle shooters knew ahead they were not shooting the qualification scores, NRAI also i believe knew it but all these guys hoped they could somehow click, and it doesn't work out that way.

We either have the option of taking NRAI's self certification on their word that they are the best sports federation in India and keep hoping for some medals in Paris or look at stats and say oh well you have 4 medals to show for all time and you returned empty medals for 2 consecutive Olympics and show them the right place beside archers. Out of these 4 medals i believe Bindra and Gagan would have medaled despite the system. NRAI should realize putting in some static pre-defined formula that's heavily tilted towards name and fame from world cups and qualification quotas earned doesn't make it the best run federation in India. If they couldn't be dynamic and react to a black swan event like Covid affect of 1 year delayed Olympics, and not already have the scientific analysis of shots fired by shooters using any biometric devices attached to shooters body during the event, i don't hope nothing much changes for Paris.
Do you think wrestling federation or Athletics federation are any better managed just because they won medals ? They may have done their mistakes but still shooting federation did take all the shooters to Croatia for a month before olympics because practice facilities were not available in India. At that point of time it looked a good decision. They had appointed a committee post Rio disaster which included Abhinav Bindra and implemented all the recommendations made by them. They had a well documented policy for selection of shooters for olympics. They probably erred in not changing the policy post covid, but it is not easy in India to make these judgement calls and disregard the reputation of the players as it is with China. We have seen this in many sports. I do not find much wrong in what they did except perhaps not coming down hard on coaches and players who were acting tough. But, they were winning medals at world level - even won 3 medals in one of the bad world cups just 1 month prior to olympics. So, how will they think that they were going wrong ?

Coming back to shooters. I had thought Manu Bhakar was only having an outside chance of a medal in individual events, only about 0.1 % probability. Her final scores have not been that great even in world cups. So, even if she had made the final, hopes for landing a medal were less. Where she faltered is in mixed team with Saurabh where she let the mental demons from individual event affect her and pulled down the team.

I had high hopes from the mixed team event and Saurabh in individuals. Saurabh has shown that mental focus not only in world cups but also at Asian games where the pressure is also somewhat close to Olympics. He had 1 bad patch of 5 shots in the individual final. Else, in the qualifying he was phenomenal, came back from a bad start and hit some 20+ 10's in a row at some point. I still feel that he will come back stronger from this setback.

And Elavenil, Manu, Tomar hare all in their teens and have shown that they have talent in them and we have clutch of others shooters who perform world class scores in domestic trials. So, still believe some of them will do it at the next olympics.
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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by srini »

All federations are run by politicians who are worms in gobbling up any government funding by finding excuses for foreign trips but at least those earthy fellows from wrestling federation who spend their bulk of time at mud dangals, inspite of the upward tick in medals they showed at Tokyo, don't have the gumption to proclaim to be the best run federation in India but that's what these shooters do year after year. The government funding should be strictly made ROI based as anyway they don't have much control over these federations since IOC prohibits government interference in the functioning of these federations.

I also believe Saurabh will medal in Paris because he looks Bidra type in composure and attitude but I just can't bear this shooting federation's charade of "the best run federation of India" ferreting the Saurabhs and Bindras,i simply think they happen despite the system due to sheer talent. I hope for the common good of its own survival, shooting federation comes out of this denial and accepts something is seriously wrong in their selection system as a 1st step!
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