Indian Sports Trusts Thread ...

All other sports such as squash, badminton,volleyball, atheletics etc which are not covered by any other forum heading can be entered in this forum

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Sandeep
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 10722
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:21 pm
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by Sandeep »

It doesn't make sense to second guess the persons that they have chosen to support -- at the end of the day, their wards have done rather well at Beijing.
Or is it that they only choose those athletes who would have anyways done well at Olympics? Abhinav Bindra has an excellent track record and Saina/Khade are two most promising youngsters in India. For that matter all the 12 athletes under MCT are very very good even before they have used Mittal's services. Ofcourse, nothing to take away from his initiatives but it would be nice if he can have a team which even explore rural India, if possible conduct tournaments to pick talented people and then nurture them. Something like that would really make a difference in India.

May be he can even go further and assure a job in one of his steel companies :) . May be it is asking too much, but I guess that is what is required for us to become a sporting giant.
mugu
Authors
Authors
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:39 am
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: Delhi

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by mugu »

It is very nice of Mittal to have chipped in with so much of money to promote Indian sports.
It is also nice of MCT to have supported several Indian sportspersons towards their Olympics campaign.
But before we start thinking that MCT funding has actually turned Indian sports around to gain the medals in Olympics, we have to consider the following facts:
1) MCT has so far supported only established athletes, not greenhorns;
2) Such established athletes, say Abhinav Bindra, had not come up this year. Bindra's was the third Olympics. He has been one of the major gainers of the special funding provided by the Govt for the highly talent. His family has already acknowledged that;
3) The boxers, too, had been doing well. Of course MCT send them to a few foreign countries for training etc. But coach Sandhu and Cuban coach B. I. Fernandez have been around for more than a decade in Indian boxing. Nothing to do with MCT. The phyisotherapist (Heath Mathew) was enlisted by MCT when Akhil Kumar had that injury; he finally made it under the IOA banner (Neither Centre nor any private party paid for him; the IOA did thanks to the funding, including free tickets it gets from IOC)
4) MCT signed up athletes on its own terms. Someone like Gagan Narang could not agree to their terms and thus failed to get a sponsor. He is now supported by GoldQuest, Geet Sethi's brainchild that also has got Prakash Padukone as a partner;
5) Jay, Volleyball, like any other sport in India, is fully supported by the Govt. Adityan might have given an occasional present to the team, and that's about all. The sport was downgraded in Aiyar's time. MSG has brought it back to "priority" along with seven or eight others. Thus, volleyball will get entire money for camps, foreign trips, extra diet, supplements, if they need; coaches including foreign etc etc on Govt funding.
The only sports (apart from cricket and golf, which are at a different level altogether) that raises its own money adequate enough to run the sport, through sponsorship support is tennis. Even they get Govt funding.
Last edited by mugu on Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19124
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 8 times
Contact:

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by prasen9 »

Mugu, thanks for the information.  So, it is the terms that were not acceptable to Narang.  Now, it makes more sense. 

And I actually went to their website and saw that they had stubs on Jitender and Vijender but with no content as yet.  So, perhaps those two are being considered for funding.  It seems that MCT does indeed fund sportsmen but after they have shown themselves to be world-class not before.  Whatever they do to help, helps.  So thanks to them.

They also say that their charter is to help with specialists.  So, why not Sania?  Their team seem to be saying that they do not have enough money to get a full-time physio like Heath Matthews.  Or did she not agree to their terms as well?  What are the terms anyway?
Last edited by prasen9 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
puneets
Member
Member
Posts: 3823
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:57 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: US

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by puneets »

Sania does not have enough funds to get a full-time physio! You got to be kidding me. At one point, she was getting more ads than service breaks. She is either too stingy..or too generous with her money. :D
sameerph
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 32795
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:26 pm
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: MUMBAI
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by sameerph »

prasen9 wrote: They also say that their charter is to help with specialists.  So, why not Sania?  Their team seem to be saying that they do not have enough money to get a full-time physio like Heath Matthews.  Or did she not agree to their terms as well?  What are the terms anyway?
Prasen , go back to eariler pages of this thread where there is some discussion on why some players refused to sign up with MCT ( particulay page 3 where Jaydeep has stated some of the cluses of the contract) . One of the main conditions is that players need to pay back 15 % of the endorsement money to them throughout their professional career. With Sania being the player with highest endirsements afer cricketers would not like to give up part of that money. I suppose she is already sponsered by GVK group.
User avatar
Atithee
Member
Member
Posts: 5847
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:14 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by Atithee »

Thanks Sameer for digging this up.  I was too lazy but did remember that we had discussed this before.
User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 34759
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by jayakris »

3) The boxers, too, had been doing well. Of course MCT send them to a few foreign countries for training etc. But coach Sandhu and Cuban coach B. I. Fernandez have been around for more than a decade in Indian boxing. Nothing to do with MCT. The phyisotherapist (Heath Mathew) was enlisted by MCT when Akhil Kumar had that injury; he finally made it under the IOA banner (Neither Centre nor any private party paid for him; the IOA did thanks to the funding, including free tickets it gets from IOC)
mugu - I agree with the rest of what you say, but you (probably uinetentionally) glossed over this important item.  Something like this is what Indian sports authorities would NOT do.  Just would not do on time.  THAT gave us a medal.  He was the biggest reason why our boxers had stayed fresh for that one extra round - or we would have had probably only 2 QFs and no medal.

They didn't just sign him on for Akhil and do nothing else.  They also made Heath available for others.  They also apparently worked behind the scenes to make sure that hje would be there in Beijing (as you said, IOA paid for his Beijing trip per se, though only after some usual confusion).

Heath Matthews was the biggest difference from previous times.   Sandhu and Fernandes have been there for over a decade on the coaching side.   In the past we would have had somebody like Heath to come in, in the last minute, use up some of our money, develop no real understanding of the athletes and their coaches and would basically be a waste in the end.  Though MTC did the work initially for Akhil, what they did in fully making Heath Matthews part of our boxing group, and more importantly, making sure that the whole boxing group was in GOOD SPIRITS and not worrying about some getting help and others not getting it, were all important. Generally they seems to have showed a nice touch in this.

MTC played a very big part in what we did in boxing.  Money by itself was not the difference.  Our government does spend money but the guys who administer the money rarely show passion in making sure that we do it at the right time with a proper clue or two.

I agree with all the rest of what yous say, mugu.  Just emphasizing one item in there that you perhaps forgot to highlight, inadvertently.

Jay
Last edited by jayakris on Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 34759
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by jayakris »

prasen wrote:I actually went to their website and saw that they had stubs on Jitender and Vijender but with no content as yet.  So, perhaps those two are being considered for funding.  It seems that MCT does indeed fund sportsmen but after they have shown themselves to be world-class not before.  Whatever they do to help, helps.  So thanks to them.
Yes, they had Jitendar also in their list in some way.    I believe they had shown the willingness (at least this time) to do various levels of support for various players.   Sort of like picking and choosing as needed to give some push and prod and keep them all happy to some extent - perhaps even to some guys who were not properly under larger contracts.   

It is also because it is in their interest - make no mistakes on that.  I don't say that as a dig at them ether.  I prefer it that way; it should be in their interest.  After all, MTC is basically a player promotion/agents firm, just that they started with a solid bank balance to get going and have been given allowed by the investor to not be overly concerned about profit-making, but to perhaps only make sure that they do things with a proper business footing too! ..  That is the only way Mittals would do it.

I am glad that they are like that.   Pure sports charity does not work well, pure entitlement (from government) does not work well, and pure business (sports agents) also does not work well in India at this time.  MTC is some sort of a happy medium that balances things, in my view.  So are, to some extent, the Sethi-Padukone GoldQuest, Bhupathi-Apollo etc too, if I am not mistaken.

I really like this development in Indian sports over the last couple of years.  It is somewhat unique to India, and was in a way a natural extension of there being tremendous potential on the business side, and tremendous untapped enthusiasm in Indian people/businessmen to support our sports due to the pure embarrassment everybody feels about our performance in the world, along with the kind of demonstrated governmental inefficiency that is unprecedented in sports history in making use of the opportunities presented by a fast-growing economy. 

If I am reading the tea-leaves right, the next decade or so would see this paradigm playing a big role in India's sports development.

May be I am reading too much, but what the heck!

Jay
Last edited by jayakris on Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 34759
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by jayakris »

prasen9 wrote:They also say that their charter is to help with specialists.  So, why not Sania?  Their team seem to be saying that they do not have enough money to get a full-time physio like Heath Matthews.  Or did she not agree to their terms as well?  What are the terms anyway?
I think the issue here was that, if Heath Matthews were to be with Sania, due to tennis' day-to-day requirements, he would be unavailbale for eveybody else.  MTC was smart in seeing that he was the one world-class physio who was unattached to other things abroad who was available to help a bunch of other medal prospects.   I would think that they simply decided that they could not let him go away to Sania (who had nearly ZERO medal chance, being at best only a top-25 prospect in her field), and they were willing to outbid Sania on that.   Sania had other trainers she could use though, and so I don't think it ever came to a proper "bidding war" or anything between Manisha and Imran on Heath Mathews.   After all, Mahesh is the one who brought Manisha into all this, and Mahesh is in Team Sania too.

The point is - these guys have all worked together quite well this time, dropping unnecessary egos and everything, because when there are vast untapped opportunities, it is better not to be narrow-minded and fight over small things and miss the rest of the opportunities.   I don't know if they all realize it just the same way I describe it, but I like what I see.

We are beginning to do some things in sports, just like we did in business in India, in spite of our government and bureaucrats!  May be I am reading entirely too much into it and am waxing philosphical about it all.

Jay
Last edited by jayakris on Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19124
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 8 times
Contact:

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by prasen9 »

Given the 15% back terms, I would think that sports where players earn a lot of money will not sign on with MCT, but, perhaps those with less scope for regular large incomes like those in archery, boxing, weightlifting, wrestling will sign up.
User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 34759
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by jayakris »

Precisely.  That works.  Sania, LP and MB did not need MCT.

On the other hand, youngsters in some of those big money sports may sign up with MTC, Gold-Quest, Bhupathi-Apollo etc.  That is good too.

Jay
User avatar
kujo
Authors
Authors
Posts: 3040
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by kujo »

15% is not much if you compare it to the usual 10% that a sports agent takes as his/her cut in most sports. An enabler like MCT should be allowed such terms to push/help promising Indian athletes.
If I am reading the tea-leaves right, the next decade or so would see this pradigm playing a big role in India's sports development.
Jay, you are probably clouded in your judgment by the opium of India's  3 medal Olympics performance, which has been added to whatever tea you are drinking right now! :)

3 medals for India in a single Olympics! And to hear India's national anthem too. Wow! hip hip hooray!!!  3 cheers to all people involved.

-kujo
Last edited by kujo on Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 34759
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by jayakris »

15% is not much if you compare it to the usual 10% that a sports agent takes
Yep .. Also because they have to take more risks than many sports agents.  Jay
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19124
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 8 times
Contact:

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by prasen9 »

kujo wrote: 15% is not much if you compare it to the usual 10% that a sports agent takes as his/her cut in most sports. An enabler like MCT should be allowed such terms to push/help promising Indian athletes.
I am not arguing whether MCT should be allowed such a cut or not.  However, I want to point out that an agent typically negotiates and gets contracts that are worth perhaps more than what the player could individually.  However, MCT will not help the athletes to get endorsements or help negotiate them.  Gagan Narang said that after giving the agent 15% and MCT 15%, the players would have a significantly less amount and he is correct from his perspective.
User avatar
Atithee
Member
Member
Posts: 5847
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:14 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Mittal Champions Trust Thread ...

Post by Atithee »

Prasen, 100% of 0 (or a small number) is still less than 15% (or 30%) of a any (or most) numbers.  My venture capital teacher used to say that it is better to have a slice of a watermelon than the whole grape.  I don't know if Narang (or people at his level) will be able to cut on their own (although if he truly has a paid agent, he must be making some serious money).
Post Reply