Gender Testing in Sports

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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by prasen9 »

mugu, IOC, it seems uses an array of tests, not just the chromosome test before deciding whether a person is a male or a female. The chromosome test alone is not entirely reliable. In the case of Shanti, was the entire array of tests done and then a composite decision was made? What test(s) was used to show that Shanti was not a female or transgender? The SI article seems to suggest that the entire set of tests were not done for Shanti's case.
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by mugu »

Prasen, yes, the entire array of tests were not done by OCA in Doha. Yet, they were convinced after a physical examination, a few blood tests and an ultrasound that Santhi could not be categorised as a female. The IOC does test for chromosome pattern, (but not through buccal smear, which used to be the case in yesteryears) among a variety of tests. But that alone is not the determining factor. My own opinion is, Santhi did not have a case to argue on, and it would be good for her if the Indian and foreign media leave her topic where it finished last, with her suicide attempt.
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by prasen9 »

Ok. Got it. Thanks for the information.
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by prasen9 »

From several reports, it seems Santhi has androgen insensitivity syndrome, which means that apparently you are a "male" but without male organs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santhi_Soundarajan
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by mugu »

Absolute bunkum Prasen! I was aghast at even publications like Times, London, mentioning this. Obviously word spreads through google searches. Today, a reporter checks Times and Wikpedia and gets to know that Santhi had something called Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS), writes that down in his story and thus spreads the word on the net. Within a few years, or maybe even months, every one starts talking about AIS. It then becomes the truth. Nobody checks whether she was tested for AIS and whether that test came back positive.
In AIS individuals, essentially males, the testosterone receptor is missing and thus testosterone does not act, leading to underdevelopment of male characteristics and lack of testosterone activity. These individuals are allowed in sports competitions under the "female" category since they have no advantage as testosterone is negligent.
Santhi's case could have been doubted for AIS initially, but it was not.
I was also surprised that Santhi has talked freely to foreign publications and media organisations including BBC claiming so many things (some of them wrongly translated by translators or else wrongly understood by anchors/reporters) about her travails and contended that 'she' did not have full male characteristics but some!! Many of them were misleading statements, but foreign media networks were happy to lap them up.
For her own sake, I hope Santhi will keep quiet, for, some of the investigative reporters may not understand the human element and state the truth which might have serious consequences.
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by prasen9 »

What is the truth? :-) And why should the press not report it if this is an intentional case of fraud? And if it is not intentional, then why worry about airing the facts?
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by mugu »

Even before the full truth was brought out in the media, Santhi had attempted suicide. Obviously, people who are aware of the true facts are wary of bringing up this topic again. What will be gained if the truth is brought out? She might attempt another suicide. (What will happen to Semenya now?) Santhi has been stripped of her medal; she has been banned from participation as long as she continues to be in her present form; she has been practically ostracized (if one goes by her statements); she has been humiliated, according to her. What more can be achieved by digging up? Intentional or otherwise will be difficult to establish. Her mother has said that she brought her up as a girl. Santhi might have hidden her true state and her intentions. She has suffered for it. Should we punish her more?
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by Duncan White »

The girl is only 18 years of age and it's a disgrace that the IAAF have come out in public to say she's having tests to determine her gender. If an athlete fails a drug test, their name is kept private until the B sample is tested. Yet they discuss openly such sensitive tests?
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by mugu »

Blaming the IAAF for the news leak without any substantial proof would be unfair. We have to see what the IAAF has so far stated, and that, too, after the story was discussed publicly. It is worth noting, the Semenya tests started in South Africa and the 'leak' could have originated from there. It could also have originated from one of the affected countries. The point here is, why did South Africa Association allow her to go to Berlin when they knew something was being investigated. They should have waited for the results.
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by Mugundan »

Nothing on this thread for nearly three years! That is surprising. We discussed Semenya elsewhere I presume.
Any way, here is one bit of news to re-start it:
Woman athlete Pinki Pramanik arrested on rape charges
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by gbelday »

Mugu, I was thinking about you this morning when I read this piece on rediff! And then I promptly forgot to post it. So, is this for real?
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by Mugundan »

Nice thought gbelday!
Obviously the Pinki story, like the Santi story earlier, had been doing the internal rounds for quite a number of years. Now the muck is coming out in the open.
Was Pinki Pramanik asked to quit athletics?
'There was something fishy about her'

It becomes easy for media to make accusations after so many years because this is a vulnerable period for the athlete. Speculations sell more now; 'masala' is the need of the hour for papers. There were doubts expressed earlier also; stories spreading about her gender. Unfortunately, we don't have gender tests in sports, discontinued long ago by the IOC. After the Semenya case the rules are, if anything, loaded in favour of the 'masquerading' athlete.
Since Pinki is no longer competing, I hope the controversy dies down quickly. She should get medical advice and undergo whatever follow-up action she has to.
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by prasen9 »

More on the Pinki saga. http://ibnlive.in.com/news/pinki-underg ... 741-3.html If he is a male, then the medals should be revoked.
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by Mugundan »

TOI has highlighted the plight of Pinki, the way her gender is being discussed in the media; the way confidential medical and police reports are being supplied to the media, in a report today. Gives a lot of background and there are some inaccuracies, too. But the argument is correct. How can medical records be made public? Today I read reports quoting doctors giving detailed versions of what they found and what other tests are going to be performed etc. Even if we accept that there is a criminal charge against Pinki, isn't it unethical on the part of the doctors?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spor ... 283284.cms
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Re: Gender Testing in Sports

Post by Mugundan »

I must add here, the same TOI had initially published her private activities just as the story broke. In any other country the paper would have been sued since the stuff published were unverifiable.
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