Indian coaches and coaching standard in India

david · Post by **david** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:32 pm

Mugu, I deliberately included Anju's name because of similarity of the topic I am going to raise.

As I said earlier, I would like to know your's and others' opinion.

I always had a feeling, Usha would have won a medal had she undertook that trip to US to train under better coaches. But when govt sanctioned the trip for her alone, she insisted that Nambiar should travel with her and finally that did not materialise.

No doubt, Nambiar is a great coach and his dedicated work and sincere and meticulous planning along with such equal dedication shown by Usha brought her to the top. But towards the end, Usha has went beyond and needed a higher level of coaching which I felt Nambiar failed to cope up with.

Anju's case is similar. Bobby did a great job and was instrumental in making a lazy girl (initially - in her own words) motivated. Later on she cultivated the discipline, and of course did dedicated work to reach where she is now. But I believe now she needs better coaches for different aspects of training. There were reports during the OLympics which said ``in a low voice'' that Anju should go for better training. They also said though Mike Powell is a celebrated athlete, his coaching can help only to an extent. He is not a full fledged coach. Certainly, Anju benefitted from the stint but now I feel she should go for some high-class scientific analysis and sustained training with all modern techniques. Meanwhile, Bobby also should go for high-performance coaching coarses to improve his knowledge.

A year back, when Anju was felicitated by a school in Madras, I was discussing with Bobby about the landing and then we went on to talk about the flight path, height of the jump and speed during take-off and the graph that shows that. I read this somewhere on the net. Bobby looked bemused and said: ``It's highly technical and have not yet studied it.''
But he assured me, ``Don't worry, Anju stopped training with those ancient methods'' and said now he is using all scientifi tools.

I am sure, he did adopt a lot of modern techniques and training methods but its time to go further high.

My point is many good coaches do all the hard work and take their trainees to a great level. Say if the coach's capacity at a particular level is 60 per cent and the trainee level is 30 per cent he takes him/her to 60 say over a period of five years. By that time he also improves say to 70 and the trainee reaches that level in a year and may grow over the coach to 80. But the coaches usually stagnate. Then the coach will be at 70 and the trainee at 80. After going to the top level internationally, every bit of improvement is that much more difficult at that highly competitive stages.

This is the time our coaches should leave the trainees to better ones instead of pulling them down.
These are just my thoughts and I would like forumites opionion.

mugu · Post by **mugu** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:58 pm

I wouldn't like to comment either on Usha-Nambiar or on Anju-Bobby.
But do let me know, if you may, about what you are saying by this:
``I always had a feeling, Usha would have won a medal had she undertook that trip to US to train under better coaches. But when govt sanctioned the trip for her alone, she insisted that Nambiar should travel with her and finally that did not materialise. ''
What trip are you referring to?

david · Post by **david** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:06 pm

I heard that govt sanctioned a training trip to US just before the Olympics for Usha. But Usha insisted that Nambiar travels with her and later when govt refused she did not go.

Usha was already in top shape and she just needed some fine tuning and I feel that trip might have helped her gaining that extra bit of competitive edge.

mugu · Post by **mugu** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:30 pm

As far as I remember nothing of the sort had happened. Usha did go (with Nambiar) for a short pre-Olympics build-up and competed in a couple of meets in the US. Yes, she would have been better off had she got a few more meets prior to the Games. No one arranged that. But there was no turning down by Govt of a trip for Nambiar etc. During those days trips by Indian athletes to US and Europe were a rarity unlike these days when the federation, backed by the Govt, is able to not only organise exposure trips but training camps abroad.
One thing we have to remember about Usha in 1984 is her hurdling technique was very poor and Nambiar didn't have the time nor the expertise to fine tune it. We can now sit back and say `yes, that's it Nambiar should have got another coach to do that.' Maybe later, yes. But I doubt whether it would have been possible before the Olympics. She didn't have much time with the hurdles and she knew it. She hardly had one season to understand hurdling before going into the Olympics. But 400m hurdles happened to be her best bet and she had to go for it, no matter how awkward she looked (say compared to M. D. Valsamma) while clearing the hurdles. She was literally jumping over them!

david · Post by **david** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:42 pm

Thanks for the inputs mugu.

I am talking about these things only because I want Anju to go to the top of the world. And wondering if she needs further expertise.

But Usha was a very dedicated athlete and I have seen her sweating it out in hot sun as SAI even after motherhood. I hope the present day athletes show such sincerity and dedication.

Note: If this is off-topic, the moderators may shift it to the other thread on athletics.

(I did it as per your suggestion. BBS)

BSharma · Post by **BSharma** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:08 am

We had discussed in Anju's thread about the need of her getting specialized training prior to the Olympics.

I do not know personally the coaches of Anju or Usha, and it would not be appropriate for me to comment on their skills.

In general, the coaches in India are often a decade or so behind the top coaches in the world in their knowledge of scientific training methods. There are several reasons for it including the lack of scientific research in sports medicine in India, lack of scientific institutions and facilities in India where researchers can help the coaches, lack of educational seminars for Indian coaches to update their knowledge, etc.

Mike Powell and other people had identified areas where Anju could benefit from specialized training, and although Anju's husband and coach tried to do it himself but it was not enough to get her over the hump. If Anju can develop faster speed on the runway, she can reach 7 m in her jumps.

It is time that Indian coaches be sent abroad to update their knowledge and skills, or appropriate people be brought to India to help the Indian coaches.

mugu · Post by **mugu** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:48 am

Without comment:
The best that Anju jumped, after being under Mike Powell for around three and a half months in 2003, was 6.70 metres. The best that she had jumped before that was 6.74 metres (Once each in 2001 and 2002)
The best that Anju has jumped this season under Bobby George:
6.83 (Olympics)
6.83w (Eugene)
6.82w( Doha)
6.71 (Eugene-within series)
6.70 (Eugene-within series)

Post by **jayakris** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:54 am

I thought that the Mike Powell coaching period was also for Bobby George to pick up a bit more of modern techniques etc - and that both benefitted from it. One interview of Mike Powell that I read at that time seemed to indicate that he would have preferred to have her under his camp longer, but he was OK with them doing it on their own from then on. Perhaps some of the improvements she showed this year has had something to do with what they picked up from the time with Mike Powell and put worked on later. Bobby has certainly in dedicated work. Can't say that about many Indian coaches. But then Bobby is her husband ...

Jay

mugu · Post by **mugu** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:50 am

Both did pick up a few things under Powell. But Anju is on record that the training methods etc were the same as what she had been used to bar the 10-4 grind. She improved her runway rhythm somewhat; she gained in overall confidence, yes. She has said as much. The rest: Powell had equipment needed for exercises at his home. At that point of time, Anju-Bobby had very little at Bangalore. Being a trainee of Powell, the media focus, at home and abroad, had doubled. That, too, helped.

david · Post by **david** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:47 pm

Bobby is 10 times better than many other coaches we have in India. His basic asset is, `he is a thinking coach'. A coach's main requirement (in any game) is ``HE SHOULD THINK ALL THE TIME''
Unfortunately, we cannot see many such coaches in India now. He did try to follow latest methods with stress on scientific training. But its time to move further up.

He set 6.85 as target for late 2002. Anju reached it only in 2004. According to his own standards he has fallen back. There are many reasons. But it is time to identify and overcome all those obstacles.

mugu · Post by **mugu** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:22 pm

But she did go through the grind, isn't it? Anju only said she was not familiar with the 10-4 grind. She is used to a morning session and an evening session back home. Yet, she went through that 10-4 routine under Powell. By the end of it, she didn't crib, but she was exhausted all right. Every top athlete, I guess, knows what it takes to be at the top, to win medals at global meets. Both Anju and Bobby know this more than any other current Indian athlete and coach. Anju and Bobby have put in a lot of hard work, much more than most others perhaps. And this hard work also includes, running around to arrange money (in 2003), running around for passport and visas (in 2003 and 2004), running around to arrange training facilities (in 2003 and 2004), cooking your meals (in 2003 and 2004) and trying to tie up with sponsors and the like, apart from doing your training sessions.

BSharma · Post by **BSharma** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:21 am

David, mugu, others,

The Netaji Subhas National Institute of Sports in Patiala was built to produce coaches also. How is it doing in this endevour? Any comments?

mugu · Post by **mugu** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:46 am

The NIS was established to produce coaches alone plus some research. Along the way, it became a centre to train Indian teams competing in international competitions. It got merged in the SAI later on. Now, the focus might be on the Indian teams. But the institute's fundamental task remains the production of coaches. I don't have the figures off hand, but they do produce coaches in high double digits every year.
Some of the coaches made it big, some go abroad and acquire additional qualifications, some are satisfied with jobs at the local level; many are unemployed.
The quality has suffered over a period of time, though there are bright guys around who come from the NIS batches. A majority of the hockey coaches associated with the Indian teams have been NIS-trained. Same with athletics.
Without having really assessed the present position, I might be tempted to say that the teaching staff there at the moment, might also be lacking in quality.
One shining example of the quality of the teaching/coaching expertise in the NIS in recent years has been the Korean hockey coach who passed out of the NIS and later took his country to the top four/six in world hockey. Ironical, yes. But it shows you need men of some calibre and dedication apart from those who just make the `cut'.

david · Post by **david** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:54 pm

Anju and Bobby George are leaving for Monaco tomorrow (Sept 15) for the IAAF World Athletics Finals where the best of best take part. Then she will go to Super GP in Japan and then the Asian All stars in Singapore. She will be back on 30th for a two-month break.

Bobby is seriously into big time coaching and he appears to have improved leaps and bounds in the last two years. Though Bobby remained non-commital on money issues he strongly criticised the govt and federation for not providing enough support to the athletes. Asked if he ``is going to take any supports staff this time'' he remained non-committal but did reveal that the training methods he is following are no comparison at what people here (in India) are still following. He says that there is really nothing wrong with Anju. Her Technique is superb.

He also took a dig at the former players and experts who are pointing out certain drawbacks like lack of speed, strength, lack of height during the flight. He says these former stars or `experts' know only what happened 40 years back. They have absolutely no idea of modern training methods or techniques and skills.