Indian Shooting thread

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srini
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by srini » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:16 am

And what about Mixed event quotas? looks like all quotas were distributed in Changwon WC does that mean we can't field any mixed teams in Olympics? may be some one already answered earlier but plz explain how it works..



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by depleter » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:47 am

srini wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:16 am
And what about Mixed event quotas? looks like all quotas were distributed in Changwon WC does that mean we can't field any mixed teams in Olympics? may be some one already answered earlier but plz explain how it works..
In shooting if a person has a quota(actually the country holds the quota not individual but an individual can only win one quota for their country) then he can participate in as many events as he can if he has achieved MQS score in those events. For example Anjum has already won the quota and can participate in 50m 3P too as she has already achieved MQS score in it. So, in a mixed team event we can have a team as long as we have atleast one quota from both men and women's side in the individual event.



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by SaniaFan » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:07 am

But is it mandatory that Anjum has to participate in the category in which she won the quota?



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by depleter » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:39 am

SaniaFan wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:07 am
But is it mandatory that Anjum has to participate in the category in which she won the quota?
No, it's not mandatory as the quota she won is for the country not for herself.
If no one has won a quota in 50m 3p women, and if we want to field someone in it, then Anjum would have to take one of the quota in 10m air rifle as the other 3(Apurvi, Mehuli and valarivan) are not shooting in 50m 3P. But in 50m 3p Anjum is the only one who looks like would have gotten a quota but she can't now. We can also choose to field no one in 50m 3P and choose any other 2 for 10m air rifle too.



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by SaniaFan » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:14 pm

So in other words, most likely we are going to miss out on 50m 3p. Isn't it poor planning?



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by IndiaSports » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:32 pm

No I think even after all qualifying events are played, some quotas will be left and ISSF will distribute them , so let's hope we get it and she gets to play in 3P event because she is our strongest shooter in that event and capable of winning medal.



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by IndiaSports » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:39 pm

SaniaFan wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:14 pm
So in other words, most likely we are going to miss out on 50m 3p. Isn't it poor planning?
No I don't think, it just happened like that, we had sent Anjum, Mehuli and Apurvi in 10m event in Chongwong WC and Anjum and Apurvi won the quota finishing 2nd and 4th.
The unfortunate thing is we don't have strong shooters in the 3P event, Anjum is way better than the rest, even in the juniors I cannot recall anybody. On the other hand, we have bunch of world class shooters in 10m event .
Our only hope in 3P event it seems is Tejaswini Sawang, she is capable of producing a world class performance and win the quota, hope she does.



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by sameerph » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:10 pm

Yes, the problem will be if there are shooters who are in much better form than Anjum in 10M and Anjum is in very good form in 50M. In that case, we will have to choose between choosing Anjum in both the events or to go with 2 better shooters in 10M and ignore Anjum.

In the latest updated world rankings, we have 3 men in top 10- Saurabh 4th in 10M Air pistol, Deepak Kumar 7th in 10M Air rifle and Anish 10th in mens 25M and 3 women- Apurvi and Anjum 2nd and 3rd in 10M Air rifle and Manu 8th in 25M pistol.



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by srini » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:06 pm

Thanks @ depleter for explaining.
I think its better to send our best bet of 2 shooters based on their form just before Olympics for womens 10 m air rifle instead of having Anjum just to ensure we compete in two events.
I was trying to see if the number of quota places would have atleast some correlation translating into medals, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

In 2016 Italy had 14 quota places and won 4 G , 3 S in shooting. India and Egypt both had 12 quota places but couldn't translate into medals. It all seems to depend how many high performing athletes we have at the time of Olympics.
So i think by the the Spring time of 2020 we can have some idea of how many medals we can expect in shooting based on the form the shooters have by then.We can optimize the return on medals just by selecting athletes based only on their form and high performance at the time of olympics and not by trying to maximize the number of events we can participate



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by Sin Hombre » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:21 am

IndiaSports wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:54 am
On what basis are you calling this performance terrible?
So we have to be realistic with are expectations, the shooters did decent enough here.
This is a very young team and it will take time for them to transition to seniors. We should compare them with their previous performance. Just because an event is being played in India, they are not going to shatter WR out of the blue.
Of all are athletes our shooters are very hard working bunch of players the NRAI is the best sports federation in India.
3 Gold, 1quota , 2 finals is not 'terrible', just because we have some unrealistic targets.

My only concern is the people around Manu, and all the negativity and pressure built on her whenever she misses a medal, especially some of our Indian coaches, the likes of Jaspal Rana and Ronak Pandit making those statements in media. They should be focus on building positive energy around the players and not rant in public. The NRAI has to sort this out.
Realistic expectation in terms of quota spots at a WC at home was 3.

One from Saurabh (done), one from Manu (nope) and one in 10m men's air rifle.

Rest of your post are random tangents, and talking about shattering WC huh.

Manu needed to finish in the top 4 to get a quota spot in either one of the events.



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by srini » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:14 am

I used to overly worry about quota places, but after some research into quota places and medals won by nations from previous editions of olympics it hardly seems to matter.
There are 3 more World Cups for shotgun , and 4 more for rifle and pistol events. Winning a quota is going to get easier as we inch towards the last of those world cups as most of top performering athletes would have won the quota for their nations and quota would be awarded to 5th or 6th placed athletes also by that time. ( something similar to what happened in our women’s air rifle where we already won both quota in the 1st chance itself)If one can’t make it in all these chances and the final World Cup, then chances that they would make to medal round in olympics are next to nil, so I think such athletes truly don’t deserve the quota



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by sameerph » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:23 am

There is also Asian shooting championships at the end of the world cup cycle which gives 3 quotas in almost all the events. By that time, many of the top Asian shooters would have already got a quota. So, much better chance to get a quota there.

I agree that the shooters who do not get a quota after all those event may not stand any chance of winning a medal at olympics anyway.

But, as shooting is a very random sport, it is best to get as many quotas as possible so as to increase the possibility of more medals.



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by prasen9 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:11 pm

srini wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:14 am
I used to overly worry about quota places, but after some research into quota places and medals won by nations from previous editions of olympics it hardly seems to matter.
If you have the time, would you be willing to share this information in more detail?



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by srini » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:26 pm

@Prasen, I took 2016 data for quota places and medals for arriving at this understanding, the analysis is by no means exhaustive but suffice to come to a rough estimate of what is required of athletes inspite of going through the grind of qualification process
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shootin ... r_Olympics

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shootin ... lification

Now comparing qualification data against medal summary of actual events , I can see China, Russia, USA,South Korea, Australia, Germany with 24, 21, 20, 18, 18, 17. Infact China secured all possible 24 quota places.

As you can see Italy was not in the mix of above top 6 nations, rather rubbing shoulders with India and Egypt with 14 quota places. But it goes onto win 4G, 3 S medals not just that a whopping half of the athletes returned with medals while all the above top 6 nations in terms of quota under performed, albeit a few medals. And India and Egypt did the unthinkable by returning medal less. It makes me believe by sheer volume of athletes a nation may obtain big number of quota places but if the quotas obtained are by five-ish six-ish finishes in the qualification tournaments, then the quality of athletes is not enough to put them in medals bracket ( i am not sure if that’s the case with above nations but i almost believe so). On the other hand even if you have couple of quality athletes who are consistently standing in top 2 of qualification tournaments especially just before the olympics- coz form also counts, that’s enough. I am counting on Saurabh to be in this category. Manu Baker also seems talented but she needs to get mature about her emotional part to be in standing. We almost don’t seem to have any one capable of medals in shot gun category but if that changes in Olympics qualification year that would be pleasant surprise. We have regressed in Men’s Air rifle after Bindras and Gagans left the arena but progressed a lot in women’s air rifle and also in pistol events both men and women



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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by prasen9 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:57 pm

Thank you Srini.



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