Interesting thing I found....

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by jayakris » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:56 pm

Atithee wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:21 pm
What’s the stated rationale for the current policy?
Because Manmohan Singh thought that we should stop being an "acceptor" of donations or aid, and be only a "giver" of donations/aid. Apparently to show that India is no longer a country that can't handle her own problems. I guess if Modi changes that policy, he will probably get some flak for it, which could affect his image. I think both are a bit off-track. I am surprised that neither Government could have come up with a nuanced version of the policy that allows us to take the money but still not look like an aid "acceptor" nation. But that itself is what some Kerala people and anti-Modi folks say -- that there indeed is wiggle room in the policy if Modi wants to use it, but that he is not willing to. I am not sure who is right; just as in the case of many many matters involving our PM. It could well be because it is Kerala, the one state where BJP can absolutely not find a way to even win a couple of assembly seats (thanks to communism and 2-caste divisions among the majority Hindus) .. Personally, I tend to think that Modi is not deliberately playing politics at the expense of suffering people though.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by RohitG » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:34 pm

I am no expert but the concept of donation should be solely focused on giving and nothing else. The account details of the chief minister's relief fund have been made public.. can't non-Indian account holders transfer amounts to it? If the intent is to give, then go for it.. There must be other ways, why wait for a reply. And I guess that answers part of the question. People want the fame along that goes with charity. Some people were even ridiculed after they made their donation details public because the amount was low. Perhaps the countries who give aid to us, want us to remember the goodwill and reciprocate through other means. People in higher offices and media in Britain have used the argument of aid given to India time and time again.. whether it's us denying their defence equipment or sending satellites into orbit. Why would you take aid if you're reminded mischievously in the future.. Perhaps that could explain why India decided to go solo. Adding to what Jay says, the politics can't stop staying out of it. Assam, Bihar and Gujarat received similar amounts or less when they were hit with floods. Karnataka too is suffering today. It adds spice to the news article in case of Kerala since state and center govt belong to opposite ends of political spectrum.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by kujo » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:44 pm

RohitG wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:34 pm
Perhaps the countries who give aid to us, want us to remember the goodwill and reciprocate through other means. People in higher offices and media in Britain have used the argument of aid given to India time and time again.. whether it's us denying their defence equipment or sending satellites into orbit. Why would you take aid if you're reminded mischievously in the future.. Perhaps that could explain why India decided to go solo.
True.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by jayakris » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:24 pm

RohitG wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:34 pm
I am no expert but the concept of donation should be solely focused on giving and nothing else. The account details of the chief minister's relief fund have been made public.. can't non-Indian account holders transfer amounts to it?
As you know, any organization can indeed remit from abroad (subject to certain rules on what the fund is for). No problem. Many Indian organizations are doing it from abroad. Other countries' governments and United Nations are different.
If the intent is to give, then go for it.. There must be other ways, why wait for a reply. And I guess that answers part of the question. People want the fame along that goes with charity. Some people were even ridiculed after they made their donation details public because the amount was low. Perhaps the countries who give aid to us, want us to remember the goodwill and reciprocate through other means. People in higher offices and media in Britain have used the argument of aid given to India time and time again.. whether it's us denying their defence equipment or sending satellites into orbit. Why would you take aid if you're reminded mischievously in the future.. Perhaps that could explain why India decided to go solo.
Yes, that is why Manmohan Singh set up the policy, and Modi continues it. None of these big charities come for free. It would put you in tough circumstances later. That may be in some negotiations over defense purchase/sales, oil prices, voting against Pakistan or China in the UN, or whatever... It can get complicated.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by Atithee » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:31 pm

I don’t know if this is a hot potato but the reasons I’m reading seem to point to a religious angle, i.e., there is a pseudo motive of “conversions.” This is why there is not a rush to accept the foreign government donations. Not sure if this is just a conspiracy theory.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by jayakris » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:06 pm

Atithee wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:31 pm
I don’t know if this is a hot potato but the reasons I’m reading seem to point to a religious angle, i.e., there is a pseudo motive of “conversions.” This is why there is not a rush to accept the foreign government donations. Not sure if this is just a conspiracy theory.
I don't think UAE has much of a conversion angle. In fact I don't think there is much of any serious drive to convert Malayali Hindus and by-default-Hindu dalits and adivaasis to Muslims... The conversion angle is with the Christian evangelists, and that seems to not be an issue in this particular case. But that may have been a reason why PM Modi kept the policy, even if the Congress government set it up with no regard to conversion (which they always supported). Modiji may have felt that some of these foreign government "donations" would first be offered as support for the country but would then be routed (after we agreed to take it) through religious organizations who have evangelization as at least as-important an objective as charitable work. Not sure that was a concern here though.

Anyway, what is right now happening is plain politics by the Kerala CM, Pinarayi Vijayan, a pretty shrewd politician. As far as I can see, not a single newspaper from the Gulf has quoted any official source from the UAE president, on the $100M donation. The UAE president had posted some "let-us-all-help-Kerala" tweets at his twitter and had formed a committee to help in relief. The newspapers were all quoting CM Vijayan to be saying that the UAE president had called Modiji and offered $100M. But UAE and Delhi haven't denied it. Basically, Mr. Vijayan jumped the gun deliberately to make Modi look bad, as he knew that Delhi would not immediately decide to accept it. That gave him a few days of great opportunity to badmouth BJP and Modi. Just plain politics!

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by Atithee » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:28 am

The conversion angle is very much in the news, even from UAE. Also, you’re right; the idea of donations being routed through religious organizations is indeed a concern.

Modi did tweet thanks to UAE unless it was fake news.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by jayakris » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:17 am

Atithee wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:28 am
Modi did tweet thanks to UAE unless it was fake news.
Yes, he did. It's at the PM's twitter page. But he only said this - "A big thanks to @hhshkmohd for his gracious offer to support people of Kerala during this difficult time. His concern reflects the special ties between governments and people of India and UAE". No amount was mentioned and he didn't say we would take it. A classy response.

And, just as I guess above, this seems like it was Mr. Pinarayi Vijayan trying a political end-around, as the Indian Express published this a couple of hours ago - Kerala floods: UAE says nothing official yet, no amount of financial aid announced ... They say that only $10M has been officially announced. That checks out, by my quick research. From earlier news articles, that seems to be the standard amount they always give for natural disasters (they gave $10M each to Philippines, Florida, Texas, Caribbean countries etc, for hurricane floods). CM Vijayan told even the Gulf press that they had called Modiji and offered $100M... Now it looks like he is begging UAE for that money, by thanking them in advance!

Here is CM Vijayan's tweet 2 days ago -- "Today morning, Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed bin Sultan Al-Nahyan, the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi, informed our Prime Minister about their contribution for Kerala and this was conveyed to me by M.A. Yusuf Ali (who owns Lulu Supermarkets)," ..."We also express the gratitude of Kerala to HH Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan, President of the UAE and the Emir of Abu Dhabi, and HH Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Prime Minister of UAE and Emir of Dubai". It looks bad on him to name them and thank them when he had only heard it through a big shot expat (of course Yusuf Ali is a real big wig). I wish the Kerala CM hadn't done this. But I guess he either got carried away because Kerala needs money badly, or he really played a shrewd game that is causing embarrassment all around.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by Sin Hombre » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:56 am

This breed of Kerala politician is why the state has been on a downward spiral for decades now.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by Atithee » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:04 pm

Now this. Hard to tell what the truth is.

https://scroll.in/article/891843/fake-n ... nstruction

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by jayakris » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:46 pm

Atithee wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:04 pm
Now this. Hard to tell what the truth is.
https://scroll.in/article/891843/fake-n ... nstruction
UTTER UNADULTERATED BULLCRAP from this China-loving dude, MK Bhadrakumar. No amount of white-washing by him and putting blame on the Delhi media will wash. If there is a TRULY FAKE article on this topic, it is the above one. By the way, Bhadrakumar's father was a former MP and the chief editor of Kerala Kaumudi, an extremely-left-leaning Kerala newspaper. Look at this blatant lie by Bhadrakumar:

"Major foreign media organisations picked up the story as presaging a first-rate political confrontation shaping up between the Kerala state government and the central government – including New York Times, Fox News, Deutsche Welle, etc ... Curiously, however, neither the Kerala leadership nor the Modi government joined issue. The Kerala Chief Minister Pinarayi Vijayan has publicly expressed more than once his gratitude to the help from the Centre and also counselled everyone against raking up controversies when there is a crisis situation in the state."

Yeah right! "CM Pinarayi Vijayan didn't join the issue, and was counseling against raking up controversies". What an out-and-out lie!! The CM *is* the one who started it, and there is no question about it. Every journalist in Kerala knows it. I can list and give links to every article that came out in India and the Gulf with quotes from the CM, within hours of Mr. Vijayan's saying that he had talked to Kerala expat bigwig Yusuf Ali who told him "about UAE calling Modi and offering $100 million". He said that in his daily press conference barely a day after the rains stopped and when the relief work was going on at full force. It was unconscionable for the CM to cause that distraction if it was deliberate. He either fell prey to a big game by somebody who wanted to cause harm, for India and the Modi's government, or he himself was party in the game. Either way, he was over the line, way over the line, and needs to answer some questions. There needs to be an investigation into what happened, and the Kerala CM needs to clear himself or pay the price for the damage he caused.

And look at Bhadrakumar bringing in New York Times into it. Laughable!! ... Like NYT even knew what was going on, or had any part in it. The guy doesn't lose a second in trying to bash the US or something in the U.S., while nothing Chinese is ever bad for him. Communist to the core. That is fine. No law against anybody being a communist. Some of my best friends are communists :) .. But lying and twisting the truth are not fine.

Once again, we see what most communists in India really are. This was about as anti-India a game as you could play.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by Sin Hombre » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:04 pm

Well said Jay.

I am surprised that educated Indians still keep falling to this.

Kerala is a case study of how to fail a progressive state.

https://twitter.com/jvidyasagar/status/ ... 9199680512
:kookoo:

On a more scary note, I do feel that we will see a lot more fake news to discredit Modi in the coming months to get the shambles in Rahul Gandhi elected by the likes of China. Essentially, all you need is a situation like Karnataka where the BJP/NDA gets 47% of the seats.

Kerala floods is apparently being used to sow a lot of North-South disharmony

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by prasen9 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:21 pm

To the extent I know, the UAE wanted to donate money for Kerala floods. Modi sarkar refused it. It may have been long-standing policy. But by enforcing it, the Modi government blocked money for Kerala from the UAE.

Is any of that wrong? If that is not wrong, then Kerala is right in thanking UAE. Kerala is also right in being angry at whoever blocked the money from coming in. Namely, the MEA.

There are issues with unregulated flow of money into any country from a foreign donor. However, in cases of natural disasters, exceptions should be made.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by jayakris » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:50 pm

That was not at all the issue, prasen. It was $10M that UAE offered. The Kerala CM made it into $100M (claiming that he heard that from a bigwig expat Yusuf Ali, and not from any official sources), and made others talk about India possibly refusing it. If it was $10M and Delhi decided to refuse it, to be within the policy, that was fine. It's just that Delhi had the moral responsibility to give the 70 crore Rs to Kerala (which the central government had offered - $600 crore initial amount and much more promised later). If it was 700 crore, then the refusal would be a big deal, as Delhi had a moral responsibility to tack on something of that order to what they had planned to give Kerala. So the refusal of funds became an issue, but it was all a made up story and there was no $100M offer from UAE to start with, from all all we know. I don't think Delhi has officially said what amount it was, and haven't confirmed that they have accepted or denied it (if I am not mistaken). But I assume they politely refused a $10M offer.

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