Interesting thing I found....

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by Saniapower » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:51 pm

Every country does that, you name it US,UK,Russia,India everybody does that.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by PKBasu » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:25 am

Rajiv wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:18 am
Didn't know where to post it ,
but just wanted you guys to know the prejudiced , jaundiced view China adopts to suit their selfish ulterior motives.

In border dispute with India they go back as far as 1890 to highlight an unknown treaty to stake their unfair claims
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/chin ... 92225.html


And when it comes to the most recent and fresh which is in everyone's mind especially the 7 million HongKong who's daily lives will be affected , An 1984 joint declarations Between Britain and China which safeguards HongKong Autonomy and Freedom for 50 years from 1997 onwards and the one which is enshrined , China says that treaty is irrelevant.

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/poli ... er-has-any

Just goes to show how this dictatorial regime indulges in cherry picking and talks about treaties which only suit them and wants the world to follow them , But when it comes follow and observe the same spirit for other treaties which goes against their low principles they call it irrelevant.
Funny - Strange are the ways of the peasants in the North.
About time the world awoke to the danger that the PRC represents to the world as we know it. But corporates, banks and newsmagazines make so much money in China that nobody tells the truth about what China is up to.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by jayakris » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:52 pm

PKBasu wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:25 am
About time the world awoke to the danger that the PRC represents to the world as we know it. But corporates, banks and newsmagazines make so much money in China that nobody tells the truth about what China is up to.
I have no love for China and agree that they are a cut-throat regime that does whatever (and I mean, whatever!) it takes to further that country's interest, but what is the real danger they present to the world, PKB? Not arguing, but just curious about what kind of issues you had in mind from a global sense, when you said "danger".

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by Sin Hombre » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:04 am

PKB is quite virulently anti-China but unlike a lot of us whose perspective is skewed by interaction with Westernized Chinese (and most of us get along very well with them), I am guessing the East Asian view is different.

The one thing I do dislike is the how brainwashed a lot of mainland Chinese are - I have seen that happen on Quora over the years for example.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by PKBasu » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:25 am

I am not "virulently anti-China", just virulently anti-PRC. Sadly many don't seem to make the distinction any more.

The danger that the PRC represents is evident in their constantly widening definition of what "China" constitutes. Tibet, Inner Mongolia, and Xinjiang were never part of any (Han) Chinese dynasty's territory before that of the PRC. Yunnan, and much of Qinghai and large parts of Sichuan only became part of "China" because they were conquered by the Mongol ("Yuen") dynasty -- but had no relationship (leave alone a subordinate one) with the Ming dynasty (the only Han Chinese dynasty of the last 1000 years). In fact, before the Mongols (beginning with Kublai Khan, the Buddhist grandson of the shamanist Gengiz Khan) ruled China, southern China (Guangdong, Fujian, Sichuan, Yunnan) was never part of China (and they continue to speak different languages -- conveniently labelled "dialects" by the PRC; "Peking" is the Cantonese word for China's capital). The north and south of what now constitutes China was united by the Mongols (who did not speak Chinese in their court for at least the first hundred years, and had their capital in Khanbalik, the city that was later called Peking, Beiping and Beijing). The Mongols and Manchus had "priest-patron" ties of mutual regard with the Tibetans (with the spiritual side being handled by the Tibetans, while the political/military aspects were handled by the Mongols/Manchus). The PRC invaded inner Mongolia and Tibet, plus the region that joined them -- East Turkestan, now called Xinjiang, where Buddhists and Muslims used to live in harmony. (One of the savviest things India did when Mongolia ceased to be a vassal state of the USSR in 1991 was to send the abbott of Ladakh's main monastery as India's first ambassador to independent Mongolia; sadly, and as usual, India failed to follow up economically on that, and China has now made Mongolia an economic colony).

Having invaded Tibet in October 1950 (because Nehru let them: https://swarajyamag.com/world/nehrus-pe ... et-in-1950), the PRC has gained large tracts of India (in Aksai Chin in the 1950s, on the Ladakh border over the past decade and on the Arunachal border until 2014); now they are attempting to gain a bit of India/Bhutan, but have been pushed back.
Similarly, the PRC has created a thick Nine-Dash Line in the South China Sea, totally contrary to International Law, and has taken to calling that sea "China's South China Sea". The PRC wants to take over the Spratly islands, the Paracel islands and the Ryukyu islands. All this is based on bizarre claims over what the Manchu, Ming and other dynasties previously controlled (even tenuously). This is why Xi Jinping told Trump that "Korea used to be part of China", a claim that Trump admiringly Tweeted to the world. (By this definition, much of north-eastern China, especially Jilin province, used to be part of Korea -- and of course, Japan used to rule all the parts of China that are prosperous today; and, by the same logic, Pakistan and Afghanistan are part of India, as are Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia; simply absurd!).

If imperial claims to vast territories weren't enough, China's commercial and financial practices are driving the world to ruin. China's money supply (M2) is now worth US$24.5tn -- far more than US money supply (US$13.5tn). Before the Global Financial Crisis (in August 2008), China's M2 was just $6.5tn (and the US's was slightly over US$8tn). China's is easily the biggest monetary expansion in world history, and has generated the greatest industrial overcapacity the world has ever seen: China has more than 10 times the steel capacity of the country with the second largest steel capacity (Japan), and similarly has more than 10 times the cement capacity of the second-largest cement producer (India). The list can go on...All this was made possible by the fact that China rescued its banks in 2001-03 by taking about 45% of banks' loans off their books at face value, recapitalizing them, and allowing them to continue functioning as normal -- implying that they continued to lend as if there was no tomorrow. (When Korea, Malaysia and Japan had similar problems with their banks, they bought banks' loans at a steep discount to face value -- administering big losses to banks' shareholders and managements, thus obliging them to be more cautious with future lending). The rest of the world shouldn't have traded with China (a Stalinist state with a veneer of capitalism painted on its face), but it has allowed this phantom system to emerge that is now crushing the world economy. There is no investment spending of note anywhere in the world except China (Lawrence Summers calls this "secular stagnation", but does not understand that it is China that is the nub of the problem).

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by prasen9 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:12 pm

PKB, I do not understand much economics. So, you will have to explain the last paragraph to laymen. Specifically, if China bailed out its banks and they have done fine until now, what is the problem? I am not talking about the theoretical problem of moral hazard. Yes, the Chinese banks now take unnecessary risks. But, what will happen eventually? Why is this a bad thing? China is pumping its money. Why should we not use those "subsidies" if China wants to give them to us? Will this ultimately lead to a huge crash?

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by jayakris » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:37 pm

That was a blast, PKB. I couldn't have put much of it in words, but these were generally exactly my feelings of what China was/is and what they are doing now. I don't know if I would call it a danger per see, but can see what you meant by that. The scope of the industrial excess-capacity that they created was not clear to me, though I had generally thought of that as a big key problem.

And I liked the part about Trump being told that Korea was part of China. Yeah, what a joke! Unbelievable that they try this after a couple of centuries of this same talk, and seeing that Koreans are still there with their own culture and language that are older than China's (and comparable in history to pre-sanskrit times in even India). Koreans are usually pretty quiet and not too jingoist by nature, so they tried to laugh the trump tweet off, but it must have deeply hurt the country, that has taken the brunt of hits from both side from China and Japan. The Chinese dynasties hit them with their cultural imperialism and clever ploys like sitting in BukGyeong (the Korean's name for their capital) and continuing to proclaim for a thousand years that they were the emperors of Korean areas where they had no real control at any point, and then Ilbon (Koreans' word for Japan) showed open barbarian aggression for centuries against Korea that was more advanced in science and culture (until Japan acquired guns and Korea fell prey). To open wounds now, against all that historical background, with a tweet, was too much from the POTUS. And he tweets about fire and fury against N.Korea without a word or a thought about the poor S.Koreans who are sitting ducks. But then he tweeted about Taiwan too, as he probably knew no better than to think of Taiwan as just another country - which is how it should be taken! So, sometimes ignorance is bliss and can make somebody speak the truth. Trump has so far given China a bit of an unsettled feeling, which I like - but I'm not sure how long it will last.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by prasen9 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:57 pm

In the days past, there were no clear boundaries and with it taking a month (or more) to go from one part of a country to another for reasonably big countries, control was often in name only. It was also shades of gray with local leaders having reasonable autonomy. So, who knows what it means to even say Korea was part of China. For most of its history, the Korean rulers defended their territory against Chinese aggression.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by Rajiv » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:04 am

PKBasu wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:25 am
I am not "virulently anti-China", just virulently anti-PRC. Sadly many don't seem to make the distinction any more.

The rest of the world shouldn't have traded with China (a Stalinist state with a veneer of capitalism painted on its face), but it has allowed this phantom system to emerge that is now crushing the world economy. There is no investment spending of note anywhere in the world except China (Lawrence Summers calls this "secular stagnation", but does not understand that it is China that is the nub of the problem).
Very interesting read PKB and with very valid and incisive points.

But here is an article by the resident economics Editor Jake Van Der Kamp of South China Morning Post who calls China Economy a Ponzi Economy and sooner or later it will lead to a gradual curtailment if not a total collapse. And steel is the area which you rightly pointed which is going to trigger the downfall.

http://m.scmp.com/news/article/2108442/ ... me-economy.

Since the past 10-15 years , Press freedom is eroding in this over 100 year old newspaper with Beijing driven dictates to have an Beijing appointed editor and their crony journalist in the organisation and any single journalist or editor who was even remotely critical was shown the door and the owners for the past 15 years Malaysian Conglomerate of the Kuok family had to strictly follow these Beijing dictates , and finally they were fed up or were forced to hand over the reins to ALibaba who are now the present owners. So it is very surprising That Jake manages to write on such sensitive topics but don't know how long he will last.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by Sin Hombre » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:54 am

prasen9 wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:57 pm
In the days past, there were no clear boundaries and with it taking a month (or more) to go from one part of a country to another for reasonably big countries, control was often in name only. It was also shades of gray with local leaders having reasonable autonomy. So, who knows what it means to even say Korea was part of China. For most of its history, the Korean rulers defended their territory against Chinese aggression.
It is Chinese government policy to claim that every territory was theirs historically.

Along with claiming to have invented everything including football.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by Rajiv » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:23 am

Absolutely , and this Alibaba owned SCMP few months ago even wrote a big article that Yoga was invented in China and why so .. because they stupidly claimed Yoga originated in Tibet citing frivolous and skewed logic and now since TIbet is in China , they are the true guardians of Yoga.
The Last I heard Mickey Mouse was next in Line :p

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by jayakris » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:15 am

Rajiv wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:23 am
Absolutely , and this Alibaba owned SCMP few months ago even wrote a big article that Yoga was invented in China and why so .. because they stupidly claimed Yoga originated in Tibet citing frivolous and skewed logic and now since TIbet is in China , they are the true guardians of Yoga.
The Last I heard Mickey Mouse was next in Line :p
Heck, Hinduism originated in China. Don't you know where Siva sits? Mount KailAsa is in China. It all came from China, you see!

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by Rajiv » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:18 am

jayakris wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:15 am
Rajiv wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:23 am
Absolutely , and this Alibaba owned SCMP few months ago even wrote a big article that Yoga was invented in China and why so .. because they stupidly claimed Yoga originated in Tibet citing frivolous and skewed logic and now since TIbet is in China , they are the true guardians of Yoga.
The Last I heard Mickey Mouse was next in Line :p
Heck, Hinduism originated in China. Don't you know where Siva sits? Mount KailAsa is in China. It all came from China, you see!
:rofl: :rofl:

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by prasen9 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:23 am

Have you seen (most of) the Buddhist statues/images in East Asia? If you have, you will have no doubt that Buddha was Mongoloid --- well, Mongolia is part of China :p

When I spent a month in Korea this summer, I asked the tour guide in the National Museum of Korea how the border varied between the Koreas and China. Of course, there was no strict country called Korea, but, if you consider the rulers who had control over the peninsula, etc., it is interesting to see how the areas of control move into the Chinese mainland and then come back, etc. over the years.

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Re: Interesting thing I found....

Post by sameerph » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:22 pm

In a related issue, there seems to be some breakthrough on Doklam stand off today and looks favourable to us -

Doklam standoff ends: What made China agree to restore pre-June 16 position of troops

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