Olympic bid

[BSharma]

mugu said

...it is the bigger mafia, polticians etc who make a huge killing.

Ex-Cabinet Secretary kicks up dust in power corridors. A President’s fight for planes, a PM’s fight against sons: he tells it all

A former cabinet secretary T S R Subramanian has just released his book, Journey’s through Babudom and Netaland.

This follows Paul O'Neill's The Price of Loyalty in USA. I am enjoying reading Paul O"Neill's book these days.

Addendum:
India's middle class splurges and economy sizzles. By Sugita Katyal

[BSharma]

Jay: A complete silence. Knock, knock. Is anybody home in Irvine, California?

David: "Yes this topic is turning out to be quite interesting." Is that all?

182 forum members: Except for sunnyd, nayan and Mr. Can-go-toe-to-toe-with-anyone "mugu", how can you be quiet on a subject that is a birth-right of Indians - discuss politics with a passion.

Are you all scared of PKBasu? He is like a chocolate covered cherry candy - firm on the outside, and soft and sweet inside. If you will not post your thoughts on this subject Dhruv will post messages in your names (I am sure Professor Jay has used that line on his students in the past ).

I can't wait to hear from all of you, and I am amazed that Mr. I-have-an-opinion-on-every-subject "Jay" can stay quiet for so long. Daniel, you are a sports writer, and your thoughts are valuable. I expected this thread to be buzzing with activity and was hoping that PKB would be having fun moderating it.

[mugu]

Thanks Dhruv for the link on that Express article; thanks BS for the compliments, if they indeed were.
Debroy says: Unless you are unlucky enough to be a citizen of sub-Saharan Africa (barring Botswana), most socio-economic indicators improve over time. You would expect per capita income or literacy rate or the poverty ratio to be the best in 50 years. Why 50? You would expect it to be the best in 5,000 years. ''
I have been wanting to say this ever since PKB had started bombarding with facts and figues. Having very little knowledge about economics (bar my purse, my grocer's bill etc), I never had the background to say something like this, nor the expertise to present it in this fashion.
Now, I know (you know, too) how PKB's driver had moved from a `jhuggi' to a concrete house with an ISD phone (why PKB's driver, I had moved into my own flat in Delhi in 1990 after having spent the previous 20 years moving from one rented apartment to another. I had also functioned (amazingly) without a phone for more than 20 years in Delhi, never owned a vehicle, had an ancient TV set in the mid-80s ( I have a fine 29'' colour TV now), my wife washed clothes, with me chipping in occasionally, well into the mid-90s (we have a washing machine now).
This is not an attempt to challenge PKB's economic wisdom, but an expression of the manner in which I, or for that matter many others in my age group, look at economic well-being.
Yes, BS, I read only this morning in the Indian Express the article about Subramanyam's book. Will try to read the book, if I can afford to buy that (or to borrow it from someone)

[mugu]

BS, read that piece by the Reuters correspondent on Yahoo as well.
Amazing piece!
``The signs of change are everywhere: walk into any of the glitzy shopping malls that have mushroomed in Bombay or Delhi and India's middle class is snapping up everything from mobile phones and home theatre systems to French perfume and diamond jewellery.''
``In a country where 25 years ago you could only choose between the Ambassador and Fiat, today there are millions of people zipping around in slick new cars from sleek Mercs and Opels to the best-selling hatchback, the Maruti 800.''
Middle-class queing up to buy home theatre systems, French perfume and diamond jwellery. Woh, the Bombay middle-class must be almost as rich as the Ambanis.
The middle-class speeding around in Mercs?
I will better bracket myself with PKB's driver!

[PKBasu]

Dhruv points to Bibek Debroy, and points out he is from my state. I just made a presentation on India (on a panel along with Kirit Parikh, founder-director of the Indira Gandhi Institute of Development Studies) here in Singapore. A Bengali professor (who specialises in Indonesia and who I'd never before met) came up to me afterwards and said, "how refreshing it was to hear a Bengali saying positive things about India...we Bengalis typically are professional critics". Debroy is a good economist, but like most Bengali economists he tends to see mainly the negative in India (and, for now, it is obligatory for him to do so, since he is associated with the Rajiv Gandhi Foundation). I'll address the substantive points he makes in another post...
But here's a start:
1. Sub-Saharan Africa (outside Botswana) is not the only part of the world that has had little or no per capita income growth over the past twenty years. The same is true for the Philippines over the last 20 years, as well as for all of Latin America. Russia's per capita income is lower now than it was 20 years ago, and most of central Europe (what used to be called Eastern Europe) is poorer now than it was 20 years ago.
2. Over that same 20 year period, India's real GDP has grown at an average pace of 6% a year.
3. In the last 10 years, India has been the second fastest growing economy in Asia (with only China growing faster); Asia (outside the Philippines) has been the fastest-growing part of the world economy. Debroy cites 2002; well, that was a year in which the global economy was pretty weak (Singapore grew 2.9%, after contracting 2% the previous year; Malaysia 4.5% after 0.4% the previous year; Taiwan and Hong Kong were virtually stagnant in both 2001 and 2002). India had its worst monsoon in 15 years in 2002 and still managed to grow 4%, despite having grown 5.6% the previous year, when the global economy was in recession. It is this resilience (especially relative to the rest of Asia and the world) that is remarkable about India's recent economic performance.

[PKBasu]

As for mugu's prescription of the "danda" as the solution to India's problems. Living in SE Asia, I know it can solve problems in the short-term -- and give you considerably greater orderliness. But autocracy is never a long-term solution (see Indonesia, for instance; China will have its reckoning before long I assure you).
India had its experiment with East-Asian style autocracy (June 1975-March 1977), and it worked! India's real GDP grew 9.3% in FY1976/77, there was a current account surplus, inflation was low, the trains ran on time and the streets were clean and tidy. But the people rejected this abridgement of their freedom. Achieving rapid growth (6% annually over the last twenty years) in a democracy is what makes India's achievement unique.

[mugu]

I think I have to explain about the `danda'. It was said in reference to a system that shows no accountability. The `danda' was not an attempt to suggest autocracy/emergency but a means by which people could be made accountable. Like the new police chief of Delhi has taken the control room/patrolling gypsies and the traffic depts to task for their inefficiency. If he actually succeeds we will say ``chief ne danda chalaya'. This does not mean emergency was clamped on Delhi alone either by the Centre or by the State Govt (if such an emergency is possible). Bring in the `danda' to make people work, stop people from taking bribes, make the police patrol the streets as they should (not just stand there with a rifle when a VIP comes along; not just stand there with a `danda' (!) at a barricade, doing nothing at all, bar chit-chatting with a passerby). For all that we have to make the politicians/ministers/bureaucrats/police chiefs et etc etc accountable. That means the chief gets the boot when he does not perform (wee say he gets the `danda') the minister gets the sack (and gets arrested) when he takes a bribe. Simply by saying don't vote for the corrupt politician will not solve the problem. I love my freedom as much as anyone else on this board. Though that freedom has often been misused by many of us, in the name of democracy. If the GDP growth, foreign exchange reserves etc can make my life (and that of the downtrodden) anything better than what it is today, I will be the happiest man. Just because I can't understand where that feel-good factor is converting itself into `actual good', it does not mean that I am advocating emergency.

[BSharma]

mugu wrote

....thanks BS for the compliments, if they indeed were.

Indeed they were! Although in the part of the woods that I reside I am known for occasionally indulging in BS.

[BSharma]

Quoting the yahoo article (link in one of my previous posts):

"In a country where 25 years ago you could only choose between the Ambassador and Fiat, today there are millions of people zipping around in slick new cars from sleek Mercs and Opels to the best-selling hatchback, the Maruti 800."

I am told by some people that in Mumbai you get a telephone call from the mafia or "don" as soon as you bring your brand new Mercedes car home. Is it really true? Just in Mumbai or elsewhere in India also?

I wonder what kind of a telephone call Tendulkar got once he got his car from the "Indian customs" people .

[mugu]

Thanks BS.
I wouldn't know really about Mumbai or for that matter Delhi. To me the middle-class driving around in Mercs was news. But then it depends on how one categorises middle class, upper middle class, lower middle class, rich, the very rich, poor, below-poverty line etc. True the middle class is buying up cell phones and a range of electronic/consumer goods. True again that the average middle-class has more money in hand than in the recent past. But Mercs? Well, if I have a new Merc why should I be categorised middle class?. Incidentally, the middle class in Delhi generally owns Marutis (all models, bar the now-outdated Esteem) and Santro.

[mugu]

Here is a story from today?s Asian Age. Lead story with the headlines: ``Holiday in Goa? That was chicken feed for Rudy?? ``Rudy rip-off?? ``Minister ordered AAI to pay lakhs for good life??
Log onto asianage.com or read the text below:
Unfortunately, the internet version does not have the accompanying documents that show how public is being looted: Samples: Rs 2.26 lakh for paintings for minister?s office; Rs 1.86 lakh for an official dinner at the Taj Palace (where JW BL, Bacardi, Smirnoff etc were served), Rs 1.62 lakh for furniture (this bill to be paid by the Ministry).
They keep talking about cutting down wasteful Govt expenditure but they overcome restrictions by asking PSUs to pay up.
The Asian Age story is a follow-up of the Express expose that showed that the minister had asked the AAI to pay Rs 2.69 lakh to Taj Exotica in Goa for him and his family?s New Year stay there.
Since the story broke, the minister has said that he has paid up and the bill was unpaid only because he had a dispute about the rates charged.
This is where accountability comes in (bring in the `danda?). Rudy, a suave personality, normally comes off as a straight-forward man who carries himself well in TV debates and public functions. But then such a man is part of the `let?s enjoy? brigade, well?

Rudy rip-off
By Shahid Faridi
New Delhi, Feb. 9: Union minister for civil aviation Rajiv Pratap Rudy has been using the resources of the Airports Authority of India, the largest profit-making public sector undertaking under his ministry, for personal comfort and benefit.
The milking of PSUs by ministers and officials has long remained a cause of concern. So much so that when the current Chief Vigilance Commissioner of India raised the matter recently by referring to undue pressures on chiefs of PSUs, there was a furore. But the issue died down for lack of specific information on such undue pressure. But The Asian Age has received documents that prove Mr Rajiv Pratap Rudy has been milking a PSU.
Mr Rudy got the AAI to lay a lawn at his residence and provide a "full-time" gardener, build an extra room at his residence, provide a large number of air-conditioners, air coolers, water purifiers, oil-based room heaters, geysers, false ceilings and window curtains at his residence. He even ordered the Airports Authority of India to build a fountain on the lawn (laid down by the AAI) at his residence.
It is common knowledge that the tab for functions held at the residences of ministers is picked up by those who benefit from them. The lack of specific documented evidence has allowed public servants to continue partying without hindrance. There was a function held at Mr Rudy?s residence on May 20, 2003. The AAI was asked by the additional private secretary to Mr Rudy, Mr Sushil Kumar, on an official note, to pay the bill for the photography on the occasion. A copy of Mr Sushil Kumar?s letter is in the possession of this newspaper. A "porta cabin" itself cost the AAI Rs 3.82 lakhs.
One official memo classified as "immediate" and sent to the AAI by Mr Rudy?s additional PS, Mr S.N. Sharma, says: "The following works may kindly be carried out at the official residence of the honourable minister for civil aviation on priority basis: 1) Provision of toilet in the first floor. 2) Provision of wooden flooring in the guest room. 3) Provision of corrugated FRP sheet roof over the passage located at the visitor?s room. 4) Provision of glass window in the guest room."
As per the government?s rule, any construction or modification that has to be carried out at a Union minister?s official residence is the responsibility of the central public works department.
The bills that Mr Rudy got the AAI to pay for the work done at his residence is only one part of the story. There is another part. The huge sum Mr Rudy asked the AAI to pay for refurbishing his office, and for his dinner parties, and to provide him with the latest models of "Nokia cell phones" and "Seimens digital phones." Among these are: Rs 2.26 lakhs for purchasing oil paintings for his office, Rs 4.25 lakhs for the work done in his room at the Rajiv Gandhi Bhavan that houses the ministry of civil aviation, Rs 1.62 lakh spent for a table, sofa, cupboard and side-rack for his office, another Rs 1,60,000 spent on furniture, besides lakhs of rupees spent on merging the visitors? room with the room of Mr Rudy?s private secretary, Pratyaya Amrit. The official orders issued by the minister?s office to the AAI for all these works and payments are in the possession of The Asian Age.
An official letter signed by the minister?s PS, Mr Amrit, says: "Since the existing allotted room to the PS to Minister does not have enough space to accommodate the official racks/almirahs, the existing partition wall between PS? room and visitors? room may please be dismantled and accordingly the wooden flooring of visitors? room may be changed to match the wooden flooring which is already existing in the PS? room. Besides, a split AC having capacity of two tonnes may please be provided in the room of undersigned at the earliest."
Incidentally, the same PS? room, without the alteration demanded, was used by all the PS? of Mr Rudy?s successors.

PS: If this is turning out to be anything other than Economic and General development, forgetting for a moment our main topic of the Olympic bid, Admin/Moderators may please advise me or step in and call a halt

[PKBasu]

In another thread today, there was a discussion about Nara Chandrababu Naidu, chief minister of Andhra Pradesh.
Having met the man, let me just say that I am a great admirer of Naidu's. He doesn't speak English or Hindi with any real fluency, but he is a man of action, who has simply transformed Andhra Pradesh's prospects in his decade as chief minister.
There appears to be a misnomer that he has neglected rural areas. This is untrue: in fact, he has undertaken significant reforms targeted at putting the agriculture sector on a more firmly stable footing. Just before the last election he raised electricity prices for farmers, was roundly criticised by Congress for it and still won re-election. This time, the TRS (a group demanding a separate Telengana state) is putting a spoke in the wheel but is unlikely to upset Naidu's apple-cart unless there is a clear TRS-Congress alliance (which looks unlikely at this point because the TRS is offering very few seats to the Congress, as indeed are most of the Congress' putative allies across the country).
Naidu is a progressive with a sharp focus on development. I don't know how anyone can denigrate him for this. Similarly, I admire AK Antony and SM Krishna (two excellent Congress chief ministers; the former has undergone a dramatic transformation toward pragmatism -- and away from silly dogma -- in his current avatar as CM, apart from retaining his long-standing reputation for integrity). At the state level, India is very well-served by pragmatic leadership at the moment (with the few exceptions such as Rabri Devi, Marandi, etc.). Even Mulayam has turned a new leaf in his latest turn as chief minister.

[Dhruv]

Yes I agree. Mulayam is definetly better than Mayawati for eg However, for some reason Orissa always sneaks under the radar and the only time you really read about it is when a drought hits or a cyclone or someting similar. Rather sad.

I don't know why the Congress doesn't move away from the Gandhi family and go with a stong competent regional leader instead and project him/her as a national candidate. If we move closer to a 3-4 national party system rather than a gazillion party system, I would think in the long run it would be better for the nation. I guess being affiliated with a separate party TDP for example gives them a chance to be independent of national party pressures

[Dhruv]

Another interesting article I found that says a lot IMHO.

[vishnureddy]

In another thread today, there was a discussion about Nara Chandrababu Naidu, chief minister of Andhra Pradesh.
Having met the man, let me just say that I am a great admirer of Naidu's. He doesn't speak English or Hindi with any real fluency, but he is a man of action, who has simply transformed Andhra Pradesh's prospects in his decade as chief minister.
There appears to be a misnomer that he has neglected rural areas. This is untrue: in fact, he has undertaken significant reforms targeted at putting the agriculture sector on a more firmly stable footing. Just before the last election he raised electricity prices for farmers, was roundly criticised by Congress for it and still won re-election. This time, the TRS (a group demanding a separate Telengana state) is putting a spoke in the wheel but is unlikely to upset Naidu's apple-cart unless there is a clear TRS-Congress alliance (which looks unlikely at this point because the TRS is offering very few seats to the Congress, as indeed are most of the Congress' putative allies across the country).
Naidu is a progressive with a sharp focus on development. I don't know how anyone can denigrate him for this. Similarly, I admire AK Antony and SM Krishna (two excellent Congress chief ministers; the former has undergone a dramatic transformation toward pragmatism -- and away from silly dogma -- in his current avatar as CM, apart from retaining his long-standing reputation for integrity). At the state level, India is very well-served by pragmatic leadership at the moment (with the few exceptions such as Rabri Devi, Marandi, etc.). Even Mulayam has turned a new leaf in his latest turn as chief minister.

Perfectly summed him up in my opinion. Congress-TRS have teamed up now but i still think Naidu will win. Naidu has a following among women too through that DWACRA programme where he adviced women to not depend on men and self employ. There is always criticism at the start of any programme. For example, when he set out to modernise the city by bringing down buildings, houses,etc,. ( he compensated by giving them at other places ) to widen the cramped roads many criticised it saying all that trash like he is under the World Bank, he is only good for the rich ,etc,. but the same people support it now. My breakdown of the results i expect

Telangana - 65% to C&TRS and around 30 to TDP
Andhra - 70 to TDP and 20 to Congress
Rayala Seema - 50-50
Cities - 80% in favour of TDP

This is just a hunch of mine