Lok Sabha elections 2019

[Atithee]

Is using gender specific (lingas) somehow a demon? We should be proud. Just because a language is difficult to master, it’s foreign? I found learning French easier due to this nuance. Anyway, I’ve said before—India’s biggest misfortune is “unity in diversity” the slogan’s beauty not withstanding.

P.S. I learned Bengali as a third language due to my schooling in bengal. and it came naturally to me. I’m proud I can still read it and get away with a butchered spoken version even though I only studied it for about one year.

[Atithee]

A thing I remember from around grade 9 Hindi class. There are four types of words in hindi: tatsam (exact from Sanskrit), tadbhav (similar to Sanskrit?), deshaj (folk languages), and videshi (foreign). I agree that Bengali is usually very pure. I like it. For example, you say Cheshta not Koshish. However, urdu poetry etc. is awesome. The sentiments expressed are heavenly. I haven’t read any other language based Indian literature. I haven’t even read any literature LOL. I’m just an armchair dabbler.

A more complete version of tatsama and tadbhava from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadbhava

More on South Indian languages on the same topic from the same source:
In the context of Dravidian, Austro-Asiatic, and Tibeto-Burman languages of South Asia, the terms "tatsama" and "tadbhava" are used to describe words which have been borrowed from Sanskrit either unmodified ("tatsama") or modified ("tadbhava"). Tadbhava as used in relation to these languages, therefore, corresponds more accurately with the categories of tatsama and semi-tatsama used in relation to the vocabulary of modern Indo-Aryan languages. All Dravidian languages contain a proportion of tadbhava and tatsama words, possibly exceeding over half of the vocabulary of literary Kannada, Telugu and Malayalam, with Tamil being less Sanskritised.[3] Because of their non-Indo-Aryan origin, the native, inherited vocabulary of Dravidian, Austro-Asiatic, and Tibeto-Burman languages of South Asia would be classified as "deśi".[citation needed]

[prasen9]

I took three years of Hindi and barely passed. My spoken Hindi improved leaps and bounds during my four years in college due to people from other states being present there. A language is no less beautiful because it anthropomorphises inanimate objects. I think the problem is that when I spoke it, I made mistakes that made it hilarious to Hindi speakers who would laugh at it. For obvious reasons, my speaking Hindi was hilarious and I bear no ill will to those who laughed at it. But, it made me self-conscious and a bit less willing to try. Nothing on the language. More about me and our social milieu.

I am all for teaching three languages all across India with the local language, Hindi, and English. But, before people are proficient in written Hindi fully, I do not think we should require it where requiring it would give preference to people who can communicate well in it and court documents, filings, etc. should be allowed in the language most used in the local area. Reading it is not the problem. I can clearly read Hindi but using it to write official documents is at a different level of skills.

Wrt the influence of Urdu and Farsi in Hindi, that makes the language more beautiful, imho.

[Atithee]

Yes, during my education when we were in Bengal, we had to choose between higher Bengali and lower Hindi or vice-versa. I chose the other option. Started with (and probably only read) Barnaparichay or Barna Parichay written by Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar. It was sufficient to master the alphabet and the spoken version is not too far from Hindi (or the other way). Always feel enriched by that chance learning opportunity. It must have been a government mandate because I was studying at a private school (aka convent school).

[PKBasu]

Urdu is a beautiful language, no doubt, as the shairis and ghazals that emerge in that language attest. My impression is that a lot of ghazals use "dariya" (river) to denote wine/booze, and intoxication as a way of expressing romantic thoughts more freely. As a teetotaler, some of this is lost on me...and presumably on many observant Muslims as well

Hindi as spoken on Doordarshan (and taught in schools) is heavily Sanskritised. I understand that Hindi quite a bit more than I understood Urdu or Hindusthani (daily spoken Hindi) when I first arrived in Delhi. (So it uses words like "kintu" instead of "lekin", although most Hindi speakers know the latter word rather than the former!!). For our inter-house Hindi elocution competition in my last year at school, my house could find no competitors who were likely to do well -- so I stood in (on condition that the Hindi speakers would fix my pronunciation). I had to be taught even how to pronounce a word like है correctly. But I learnt, and won! Ever since, my pronunciation has been good, but the vocabulary has expanded over time, although the use of "lings" still leaves much to be desired.

In grad school, a Pakistani class-mate (now an ambassador to several key countries) insisted on speaking to me in nothing but Urdu. I was perforce obliged to acquire a decent Urdu vocabulary. Once, our office's Muslim driver in Mumbai paid me rather a compliment after a day of driving me around the city visiting fund-manager clients: he said that I must be from Lucknow, given the way I speak Hindi!! (My wife thinks he was just looking for a big tip!)

[Atithee]

PKB—you are a determined person, no doubt. Oh, did the driver get the big tip? It’s one thing to be complimented and it’s another to be thought of being from Lucknow as far as urdu is concerned. That’s awesome.

[Atithee]

Urdu is a beautiful language, no doubt, as the shairis and ghazals that emerge in that language attest. My impression is that a lot of ghazals use "dariya" (river) to denote wine/booze, and intoxication as a way of expressing romantic thoughts more freely. As a teetotaler, some of this is lost on me...and presumably on many observant Muslims as well

You may be thinking of sharab (wine) and saki (the lady pourer of wine) that are used in Sufi music immortalized by Ustaad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan in the qawwali format. I’m an unabashed fan. He’s among the best ever as a musician in the expert opinion. I fully agree. But, one has to understand urdu well to really enjoy it. Alas, I don’t to the level that is needed.

[prasen9]

I don't but I am still a big fan.

[SaniaFan]

Fan of "sharab" or "saki"?

[prasen9]

Both. As well as the Ustad.

[Sin Hombre]

Wrt the influence of Urdu and Farsi in Hindi, that makes the language more beautiful, imho.

Agree with this, not everything Islamic is barbaric.

It is the Arabs and finding oil in the desert that has led to some of the issues with modern Islam but that's a different matter altogether.

[prasen9]

Religion is made to enable conformism.

[PKBasu]

Atithee, thanks for the classification into tatsam, tadbhav, deshaj and videshi. I didn't know such a classification existed. Hindusthani has a lot of videshi words, presumably. Shuddha Hindi (as used on Doordarshan news) probably very little, with tatsam and tadbhav dominating -- which is largely true of (shuddho) Bengali as well.

It is interesting that the Bangladesh newspapers increasingly use Urdu words for the usual Bengali ones. "Gosol" (which is derived from the Arabic "ghusl") instead of "snan", for instance. The Urdu coloquial is "nahana", the more formal is "ghusal karna" for bathing.

[depleter]

Well, looks like a petition is moved in SC for Sanskrit to be declared as national language.

[jayakris]

Well, looks like a petition is moved in SC for Sanskrit to be declared as national language.

Totally unnecessary at this point.