Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

As we had often come back to discussing economic benefits/impact of sports I thought it was about time for an economic discussion forum.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by Prem »

SaniaFan wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:47 pm Well whether they were good or bad but the Govt did take some bold decisions like surgical strikes, demonetization. Also some of the work done by foreign ministry has been good. My point is that whether Modi can work in ABV like manner in a coalition government is still to be seen. I have my doubts.
Surgical strike was a drama and probably stage managed Jhumla,
Demonetisation was disastrous and a big money spinner for some.
With a clear majority, BJP government could have done much better than the many coalition governments we have seen for past few consecutive elections. Unfortunately, it didn’t deliver on its promises on jobs, black money, corruption etc...
What do we expect next term from whoever comes to power as it looks like a coalition government again!! A big opportunity missed by BJP.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by prasen9 »

SaniaFan wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:47 pm Well whether they were good or bad but the Govt did take some bold decisions like surgical strikes, demonetization. Also some of the work done by foreign ministry has been good. My point is that whether Modi can work in ABV like manner in a coalition government is still to be seen. I have my doubts.
Whether it is good or bad matters a lot! Bold decisions are useless. I can decide to close down hospitals and force people to die in a decisive, arbitrary manner. George W. Bush made a bold decision to rush headlong to Iraq. It was a bad decision and lots of people paid for it with lots of sweat and tears. I do not want my government to be acting hastily. I want it to be deliberate and good.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by Sin Hombre »

Modi government has failed to meet expectations.

At the same time, I fear for an India ruled by the biggest idiot of the Nehru family, and that family has had the biggest contribution to ruining India.

So far, our best PMs have been ABV, Rao and first stint MMS.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by SaniaFan »

Good or Bad is opinion. You have yours someone else may have his own. You have to see many things including intentions. That does not mean that I think it was good decision but what I was saying was completely different thing which probably nobody saw because they are want to harp on Modi's alleged failure. I am only saying that this time Modi(if what I am predicting about BJP getting around 230 seats turns out to be true) may not have free hand as he'll have to work with other coalition partners. That's all!!
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by prasen9 »

SaniaFan wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:40 am Good or Bad is opinion. You have yours someone else may have his own.
Right. Whether someone dies for lack of healthcare, because of pollution or whether the poor is uplifted out of poverty is opinion.

"See that guy is dead because that driver was driving "boldly"."
"Well whether they were good or bad but the driver did some bold decisions to drive fast and hit the pedestrian with a surgical strike. Whether that is good or bad is opinion. You have yours someone else may have his own."

Bravo! Whether the country makes progress is opinion. Whether people have food is opinion.

I guess everything is "maya". What a philosophy!
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by jayakris »

Who gets credit for there having hardly been any terrorist strikes in the last 4+ years? Did Modi do something, or is this for some other reasons? Just a fluke coincidence?... Actually, maybe the first question is whether terrorism down in India. It seems so to me....
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by prasen9 »

Terrorism was already heading down. Terrorist deaths in India until 2013/2014 The question is whether under Modi it has accelerated.

It started going down from ABV days. And, it went down reasonably consistently and drastically under Singh.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by jayakris »

prasen9 wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:16 amI guess everything is "maya". What a philosophy!
Well, everything is INDEED "maya". And that defines Hinduism. But you with your education in science that developed in the west, may think that it does not fit the logic that defines that science. The science that developed in India (SAstRam, which is what Hinduism is) does not have such a limit, and thus there is "maya" that forms everything around you. Without maya, you and I and everything else will be God.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by prasen9 »

:-) Okay, I think this is finally beyond me to argue :-) Whether it fits my philosophy (which may be a hodge-podge) depends upon how you define "maya" :-) Also, does it go the other way? Everything is maya. Is maya everything? Equivalence? Or proper subset?

If everything is maya, then indeed it does not matter who is the PM :-)
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by jayakris »

prasen9 wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:26 amTerrorism was already heading down. Terrorist deaths in India until 2013/2014 The question is whether under Modi it has accelerated. It started going down from ABV days. And, it went down reasonably consistently and drastically under Singh.
No, that data is not relevant to what I am talking about. Most of those deaths are in J&K, the NorthEast etc. They have steadily come down in the last 2-3 decades. Naxals, Maoists, etc, and J&K outfits. Those have been systematically handled with tough police and military policies that were continued (because of their success) without tinkering, by governments from ABV time or even earlier. I am with you on this part -and Modi gets no credit on it.

I was talking about "terrorist strikes" like in Mumbai and Hyderabad. The kind that actually don't kill a whole lot but cause serious panic and concern in people. The car-bomb variety, at markets and outside mosques/temples. Quite often by Islamic outfits. Those have been far fewer in the last 4-5 years, I think. These tables (which form the basis of the graph you linked) will show that the terrorist deaths in places like AP, Maharashtra, Delhi, etc where have pretty much disappeared.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by SaniaFan »

prasen9 wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:16 am Right. Whether someone dies for lack of healthcare, because of pollution or whether the poor is uplifted out of poverty is opinion.

"See that guy is dead because that driver was driving "boldly"."
"Well whether they were good or bad but the driver did some bold decisions to drive fast and hit the pedestrian with a surgical strike. Whether that is good or bad is opinion. You have yours someone else may have his own."

Bravo! Whether the country makes progress is opinion. Whether people have food is opinion.

I guess everything is "maya". What a philosophy!
These arguments does not apply in my opinion and are ridiculous. But still to take that hypothetical argument further that kind of driving may be justified if he was able to save the five kids who came to the road suddenly in search of the ball and he had to steer to the pedestrain. The driver did not have eternity to think. He had to take a decision and chose one. That is why I said the intention is also important. BTW I also think that demonetization was not good. I think his intention was not bad.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by prasen9 »

SaniaFan wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:52 am These arguments does not apply in my opinion and are ridiculous.
You are absolutely correct. Saying that good or bad policy and good or bad impact of the government on people is opinion is beyond ridiculous. That is what I was trying to illustrate.
But still to take that hypothetical argument further that driving may be justified if he was able to save the five kids who came to the road suddenly in search of the ball and he had to steer to the pedestrain. The driver did not have eternity to think. He had to take a decision and chose one. That is why I said the intention is also important. BTW I also think that demonetization was not good. I think his intention was bad.
BS. Why did the driver have to drive boldly without thinking that speed kills? Boldness in decision making is not the criterion. I care for the bottom-line. And there is a clear good and bad in many things. In others, it is shades of gray.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by sameerph »

jayakris wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:48 am I was talking about "terrorist strikes" like in Mumbai and Hyderabad. The kind that actually don't kill a whole lot but cause serious panic and concern in people. The car-bomb variety, at markets and outside mosques/temples. Quite often by Islamic outfits. Those have been far fewer in the last 4-5 years, I think. These tables (which form the basis of the graph you linked) will show that the terrorist deaths in places like AP, Maharashtra, Delhi, etc where have pretty much disappeared.
Fully agree with this. Have a look at another data-

List of terrorist incidents in India

Since 2014, all the incidents have been either in or near Jammu and Kashmir or in Maoist areas. Nothing in other areas, whereas in earlier 10 years of UPA there were incidents all over the place- Mumbai, Pune, Delhi, Hyderabad,Ahemedabad,Jaipur, Bangalore etc. There have been none of these since 2014.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by SaniaFan »

prasen9 wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:56 am
SaniaFan wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:52 am These arguments does not apply in my opinion and are ridiculous.
You are absolutely correct. Saying that good or bad policy and good or bad impact of the government on people is opinion is beyond ridiculous. That is what I was trying to illustrate.
But still to take that hypothetical argument further that driving may be justified if he was able to save the five kids who came to the road suddenly in search of the ball and he had to steer to the pedestrain. The driver did not have eternity to think. He had to take a decision and chose one. That is why I said the intention is also important. BTW I also think that demonetization was not good. I think his intention was bad.
BS. Why did the driver have to drive boldly without thinking that speed kills? Boldness in decision making is not the criterion. I care for the bottom-line. And there is a clear good and bad in many things. In others, it is shades of gray.
BBS. How do you now he was over speeding. It was moving at snails pace earlier and when he got it it started moving at proper speed.

Regarding arguments it is not about good or bad policy but about doing something and taking some risk while doing that. If there are divided opinion on some things like demonetization. That is plain truth and you can see umpteen opinion on internet. That is what is subject to opinion means. ridiculous is when someone is not able to see that.

Prasen, I am also free today :p
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by prasen9 »

There is good or bad about policy. You own what you do. If the results are good, it is because of your actions. If they are bad, it is because of your actions. If we cannot measure things, only then can we say that we do not know. Not that good or bad does not matter or there is no good or bad. There are umpteen metrics that are reasonable by which you can measure good economic policy versus bad. At least wrt what is known.

I know he was over-speeding because that was in the assumptions of the statement. He was driving "boldly", doing things too fast without thinking. That is what the premise of the first comment was that bold actions matter not what is good or bad.

I am working but in breaks, I come an spout off :p
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