Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

As we had often come back to discussing economic benefits/impact of sports I thought it was about time for an economic discussion forum.
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kujo
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by kujo »

Looks like you are now claiming an average 10%+ growth, rather than 10%+ every individual year. That is fine.
But, a) I am looking for numbers, not charts.
And, b) for the entire 13 year claim - not 10 years.

What is the source for this chart from Economist - "National Statistics" ?! Is that a government department? Can we get the real GDP growth numbers for other states from "National Statistics" as well?

kujo wrote:The claim that Modi has achieved 10%+ real GDP growth, every year, year over year for 13 consecutive years is simply untrue.
Where are the official statistics on this? Links / URLs please.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

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http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -india-bjp

The BJP candidate may be leading India’s prime ministerial election polls, but his record, while good, doesn’t justify the hype… There are two problems with this argument. First, there are other states that have achieved this, but no one is talking about the Maharashtra or Haryana model of development. Second, Gujarat’s growth rate was higher than the all-India level in the 1980s and 1990s as well… Gujarat’s growth rate in the 1990s was 4.8%, compared to the national average of 3.7%; in the 2000s it was 6.9% compared to the national average of 5.6%. The difference between Gujarat’s growth rate and the national average increased marginally, from 1.1 percentage points to 1.3 percentage points. A good performance? Yes. Justifying the hype? No. … Contrast this with the performance of Bihar, the state that has been in the bottom of the rankings in terms of per capita income throughout: its growth rate was 2.7 percentage points below the national average in the 1990s, but 1.3 percentage points higher in the 2000s. So the prize for the most dramatic turnaround in the 2000s would go to Bihar.


http://time.com/8883/the-modi-model/

Officials reject claims that Muslims, who make up about 9% of the state’s 60 million people, have been neglected. Why separate by religion? says Pratik Doshi, a Modi aide.. ..Adds A.K. Sharma, a close lieutenant of the chief minister; The Muslim population in Gujarat is doing as well as the Hindu community. That’s only partly true, according to the 2006 Sachar Committee Report, a paper commissioned by New Delhi on the status of Muslims in India. It found, for instance, the rate of poverty among rural Muslims in Gujarat was lower than that of Hindus, but in urban areas it was double.

..In Ghoda, a village a few hours’drive from Ahmedabad, a young woman, Shakari Ben, sits under the roof of her red-mud house, its walls scorched black from the cooking fire. Small chickens peck at nothing on the mud floor. Ben produces a stack of five round chapatis and a 10-kg sack of flour. This is all the food we have in the house right now, she says. Sure, there is an electricity line running to her lean-to home, but her two boys, who stick to her side sucking their thumbs, both have bellies that look bloated, a textbook symptom of malnutrition.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghabahree ... s-gujarat/



Adani has, over the years, leased 7,350 hectares€ “much of which he got from 2005 onwards€“ from the government in an area called Mundra in the Gulf of Kutch in Gujarat. FORBES ASIA has copies of the agreements that show he got the 30-year, renewable leases for as little as one U.S. cent a square meter (the rate maxed out at 45 cents a square meter). He in turn has sublet this land to other companies, including state-owned Indian Oil Co., for as much as $11 a square meter. Between 2005 and 2007 at least 1,200 hectares of grazing land was taken away from villagers.

For miles at a stretch the chimneys of the two power plants are visible against the horizon. Gajendra Sinh Jadeja, the 28-year-old head of Navinal village, says the Gujarat government took some 930,770 square meters of his village’s grazing land for Adani,s SEZ. Adani got it for 19 cents a square meter…Traversing a couple of nearby barren fields, Jadeja says he had been growing alternately cotton, millet and castor there. Now patches of white salt are easily visible across stretches of the fields and have become a common sight across farms. The saline water ruined the soil, and the poor production now is just not worth it, he says.

The tenor of all the three articles published in a period of just one month is very clear. None of the authors have swallowed the myth of Gujarat Model. In fact, they have questioned the integrity of the Governance noting the huge pieces of land given away to Adanis and the damage to the villagers and environment. Guardian has questioned the very basis of the claim of Gujarat Model being a superior model. When people far far away can see the Truth Of Gujarat, how come our erudite Indian Media cannot discern the truth?
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by sameerph »

So , all of you who are criticising & opposing Modi , what is your alternative ?

Corrupt Congress again who had scam after scam of huge proportions in last 5 years and who was led by a PM who cannot take his own decision ?

Or a non-existant third front who if it comes into being will have leaders like Mulayam , Mamta etc. everyone wants to be PM.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by kujo »

Average annual growth rate of per capita income of selected states, by decade:
Image

Human Development Index (HDI) scores of selected states, by decade:
Image

Poverty Head Count Ratio of selected states, by year:
Image

Source: Mirror, mirror on the wall, which is the most dynamic state of them all? - See more at: http://ideasforindia.in/article.aspx?article_id=270
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by prasen9 »

PKBasu wrote: And Godhra was the train station where 59 Hindu pilgrims were charred to death. The callousness with which you appear to attribute that to Modi.
Where did I attribute the death of the Hindu pilgrims to Modi? I am attributing his government's failure to establish and try to maintain law and order after the incident. I am attributing his government's employing people who were complicit in the murder of the Muslims by turning a blind eye to their misdeeds.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by prasen9 »

PKBasu wrote:On the other hand, Congress-ruled Assam had awful riots in the Bodo districts in 2012, and (SP-ruled) Muzzafarnagar in UP had terrible riots last year. Assam had the Nellie massacre (of mainly Muslims / Bengalis) in 1982, which killed at least 5000 people (about 7 times the number who died in the post-Godhra riots) -- and somehow the Congress is not answerable for that, or for the 1984 Sikh riots, or indeed the regular communal riots in Gujarat itself in the pre-Modi era (when it was the post riot-prone of India's states, with 200-500 dying in riots there on a regular basis).
There are two vital points you are ignoring:

1. Nowhere did I want the Congress to come to power.
2. Nowhere did I support any governor in these states who were the chief of their states during these riots. If you are a governor who cannot manage to protect the party being massacred given a reasonable time fails the basic test of governance and should be automatically disqualified by the populace.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by prasen9 »

sameerph wrote:So , all of you who are criticising & opposing Modi , what is your alternative ?

Corrupt Congress again who had scam after scam of huge proportions in last 5 years and who was led by a PM who cannot take his own decision ?

Or a non-existant third front who if it comes into being will have leaders like Mulayam , Mamta etc. everyone wants to be PM.
I am fine with not having Congress. I would vote for a third party. If everyone does that, then we will have someone. Modi was above average (but not way above everyone else) wrt the economy and bad wrt human development. If we vote all crooks out and the crazies such as Mamata out, then someone will step up and do the job. History shows that Modi is nothing spectacular except at duping people to believe that he is spectacular. If I ran a PR/political campaign, I would hire Modi. For everything else, anyone else would do.

My school-mate lives in Gujarat says that the development has primarily benefited the rich. I am not disputing that there has been some improvement in the conditions of the poor but that has happened almost everywhere in India.

Comparing Chattisgarh to UP is not fair. What are the natural resources that Chattisgarh has and what does UP have?

Kujo's graphs say it all.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by jayakris »

I want Modi to be the PM. That's it. I am not getting into any argument on that. I am sick of these anti-Modi arguments, and I am sick of what the last few years were, when the country was run by a PM who was controlled by somebody who never seemed to have any interest of a majority of Indians (read, Hindus) anywhere near her heart at any point, at all. Sure, minorities need to be protected, but the majority shouldn't be discarded either. Time for a change, and I don't see anybody with the executive experience and consistent record Modi has (whether you agree it was spectacular or not - and probably it was not - it was definitely not worse than a top-3 or top-5 record in state governance). At least not among those who potentially could become our PM. Whatever happened in Gujarat a dozen years back happened, callous as it sounds. But that was over a decade back. I need Indians to live better NOW. Time to move on. Time to get past the emotions of the Gujarat riots, and stop it from preventing our having a PM who has the best chance for some credible governance. Sorry if this sounds heartless, but I think those Gujaratis' deaths shouldn't be causing the rest of Indians even further hurt with an ineffective idiot PM being forced on them. Not a dozen years after. Time to move on. I do not believe that Modi can engineer any minority massacre sitting at Delhi, and his Gujarat record since then does not scream "minority repression" or even "minority neglect". And that is what I expect under his governance from Delhi. I want him as the PM.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by Omkara »

I so agree with you Jay. I didn't want to add anything here before but you have summarized it aptly. Let's have some one who can work the government machinery. PKB, rightly pointed out that Modi's executive experience makes him the most preferred candidate. Last 3 years inaction has hurt the poor most. Ask my maid if anyone wants to.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by Kothai »

Also we could vote for AAP but Kejriwal's pulling half way out from governing when the opportunity was given makes it not possible to believe him in governing.
We need someone who can work the system and deliver something atleast..
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by kujo »

jayakris wrote:I do not believe that Modi can engineer any minority massacre sitting at Delhi, and his Gujarat record since then does not scream "minority repression" or even "minority neglect". And that is what I expect under his governance from Delhi. I want him as the PM.
Seriously?!
and why is it not possible? Are the minorities so far away from Delhi?!

Not that, he engineered the one after Godhra incident. He simply stood aside and watched / enabled the riots - instead of governing and preventing such a massacre.

What would prevent him from repeating such inaction, when another such incident happens? the "high" office of being the PM of India? - say nothing about the high office of being a CM...
And this time, for the heck of it, let us say it happens somewhere in northern Kerala!
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by jayakris »

kujo wrote:
jayakris wrote:I do not believe that Modi can engineer any minority massacre sitting at Delhi, and his Gujarat record since then does not scream "minority repression" or even "minority neglect". And that is what I expect under his governance from Delhi. I want him as the PM.
Seriously?!
and why is it not possible? Are the minorities so far away from Delhi?!
Not that, he engineered the one after Godhra incident. He simply stood aside and watched / enabled the riots - instead of governing and preventing such a massacre.
Yes. Seriously.

How many Indian PMs have "governed and prevented such a massacre". The Indian PMs usually can only stand and watch such things, like in the anti-Sikh riots and pretty much any other massacres, starting from the partition-time violence. Moving the army in is mostly what a PM can do, and even that is not all that fast in 3-day riots like happened in Gujrat. It will be the same under Modi.

I just don't believe something like the Gujrat massacre will happen all that easily anymore in India because everybody involved learned all kinds of lessons that they won't easily repeat it. At least I hope so. But God forbid something were to happen when Modi is the PM, he will probably have only about as much blame as Vajpayee had, in Gujrat - where everybody's blame seem to end with the Chief Minister (rightly so; because the CM with the state police under him can at least do something about it, unlike the PM who doesn't give orders to the state police forces)
What would prevent him from repeating such inaction, when another such incident happens? the "high" office of being the PM of India? - say nothing about the high office of being a CM... And this time, for the heck of it, let us say it happens somewhere in northern Kerala!
On the first part, see above.

For the second part about kerala... ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? The only people in the land of Adi Sankara who are afraid of any massacre of them are the majority Hindus with their deep divisions within - that have rendered them without a voice in anything; politics or business or media. Or, were you talking of a massacre of Hindus by any chance? If you were, I hope the Kerala CM who usually has no need to care a damn for the Hindus, would hopefully care at least in preventing a massacre of them.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

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prasen9 wrote:I would vote for a third party. If everyone does that, then we will have someone. Modi was above average (but not way above everyone else) wrt the economy and bad wrt human development. If we vote all crooks out and the crazies such as Mamata out, then someone will step up and do the job.


Almost everyone in non-BJP, non-Congress space are either crooks or are crazy like Mulayam, Mamata, Mayavati etc. The only decent ones who come to mind are Navin Patnaik, perhaps Nitish Kumar & Communists. I am sure you do not want to communists to rule India & other 2 are regional parties who do not even have candidates in other parts of India. Other option is Kejariwal who seems to be also going crazy now.

If you put together a coalition of all these third parties, it will be even more unstable & will be disastrous for the economy. (even if they somehow manage to get to a number above 272 which is highly unlikely.)

In short, Modi is benefitting from both positive vote (development in Gujarat- clearly above average at least & BJP has been able to sell that well) & negative vote - (bad governance by Cong. in last 10 years & no other viable alternative.
prasen9 wrote:My school-mate lives in Gujarat says that the development has primarily benefited the rich.
If everyone in Gujarat was thinking like that Modi would not have got elected for 3 consecutive terms & with a thumping majority each time.
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by ankit1407 »

Strange Elections, everyone is using the energy to fight against the current opposition instead of fighting the rulling party. I guess inside they have realized Congress is a fightling a lost cause and as for Third front, well they are called third for a reason and they dont deserve to rule either.

Modi might not be as good as his campaign suggests but surely he can do no worse, for once he deserves a chance and i will be more then happy if he gets it this time. what happened in 2002 was bad it should not have happen but can we move on please?

whats bad for country currently ? Economy which is suffering daily by so called secular parties OR a possible injection of fresh ideas by a possible leader who was probably responsible for 2002 but have governed the state for 12 yrs after that without any blot?

well I chose the later, in Politics you will bever find the perfect match so just go by the best you have at that point of time.

btw mind you he is still yet to be convicted in any charge, but again when it comes to 2002 we dont trust our legal process but for everything else we say Innocent Until Proven Guilty,double standard at its best
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Post by krinix »

The Modi fan boys always try to equate Gujarat Riots with Anti Sikh riots. But whats the subject at hand? Its Modi under whom this massacre happened.
Modi is in running for PM, Not Tytler. lets simply the Evil called Modi.

You say move on, its been more than a decade.
Go tell that to someone who lost brothers, sisters, Mothers, fathers, sons, daughters.
All those innocents murdered and Modi was able to call it a Mass agitation.

Go through his speeches before the Gaurav Yatra in Gujarat . He spewed venom. He continues to do so.

Extracts from a Article


If you believe he was behind the riots—behind “genocide”—then Gujarat’s economic growth rate does not matter. Rather, it shouldn’t matter.
Are we soo desperate by the promise of development, that we have forgotten our humanity?

Obsession with the promised economic wizardry of Modi is not selfless patriotism for India’s advance, it is greed without regard for cost.

India has not just lost a war, or recently faced hyperinflation, or had her national pride stomped on by embarrassing terms of surrender.

Having seen the last decade of economical turmoil, we as a country have done exceptionally well. We continue to build infra, continue to attract investments in every field.continue to pursue our space dreams. We are better than what we were 10 years ago. yes more could have been achieved, but that's another topic altogether.


If you truly believe Modi is innocent, then you are excused. You then only have to reconcile with having a prime minister who is obviously incompetent at maintaining law and order in a nation where Naxals abound and multiple secessionist movements are ongoing. But if you believe he may be guilty of either ordering the riots or not preventing them, then you cannot comfortably ignore that judgment just because it is convenient to your privileged view of India’s future. To do so is nothing less than cowardice.

I understand he is from a chaiwala background.. But id rather he left the chaiwala langauge behind. PM in running should be a man of repect.. not some calling someone's gal, a 50 crore girlfriend, Not call the current PM Maun Mohan singh. If this is the respect he has for our current PM, I guess he would not expect the same in return.
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