Lok Sabha elections 2019

As we had often come back to discussing economic benefits/impact of sports I thought it was about time for an economic discussion forum.
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prasen9
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Re: Lok Sabha elections 2019

Post by prasen9 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:28 pm

The number of toilets built by the NDA was less than that of the UPA. If we consider the same amount of time, four years, the NDA was about 50% faster. However, they also spent about 3-4 times per toilet at about the same goods. Essentially, the corrupt regime used that to loot a lot of money from the government or loot more money from the government than the UPA thiefs did. That stolen money could have been better spent in education and infrastructure. The UPA may have taken one or two more years than the NDA to complete the job but would have done it at substantially lower costs. There is no evidence to say that the product was any way different. Of course, when I let people steal more money and ask them to do things faster, they will do it.

Now, you have to really marvel at the PR. The PR makes it seem that Modi went to all the villages in India and put up the toilets on his own. Never mind that the projects were started and more toilets were put in by the previous governments than this one. Elections are won by PR. And, as Trump shows and Modi knew that, you just need to declare that all vilagges have toilets even though that may actually not be the case. I hope the rest of the parties learn this. Not the lying part but the effective PR part. The reason I want a healthy opposition is because in a democracy a vibrant clash of ideas always results in a healthy democracy. Who was it that said, I forget the name and am too lazy to look up, "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." These people are already totally corrupt but I am hoping a vigilant opposition will prevent absolute corruption. As shown by the language-forcing issue, we need a vibrant opposition to stop the excesses of this (or any) government.

Here is some data about the facts. Rural development fact check. The fact is that in these aspects the NDA has done things faster than the UPA. However, the flat out lying and misrepresenting of facts by government entities is deplorable. I suppose that is modern politics. Who cares what the reality is, say whatever your followers will believe. While the NDA has done better in these aspects, it has done abysmally in others especially when it comes to the environment and related public health.



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Re: Lok Sabha elections 2019

Post by Atithee » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:10 am

See the map in this article. It says something else although the source seems to be the government itself so it must be taken with more than a pinch full of nose!

We can find articles stating all kinds of data is my point. There is no one source of truth other than your personal observations (hopefully lack thereof during your own visits).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... l-in-india



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Re: Lok Sabha elections 2019

Post by prasen9 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:30 am

That is based on the government PR machine, which has flat-out lied. The fact check article I provided gives the source of the data that contradicts the false claims by this government. Now, it is possible that the fact checker is wrong but at least the fact checker and the independent verifier below were third parties.

Here is an article on independent verification. NARSS. By mid-March 2018, 77% of the households had toilets and 23% did not. Of course, any amount of data from independent verifications or fact-check sites will not prevent the false propaganda by the PR PM and his psychophants.



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Re: Lok Sabha elections 2019

Post by prasen9 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:33 am

Atithee wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:10 am
We can find articles stating all kinds of data is my point. There is no one source of truth other than your personal observations (hopefully lack thereof during your own visits).
By this token, we should not claim that Modi built all the toilets by himself and is the next incarnation of the god-of-your-choice until we verify these. The problem is that my visits are very sparse. I can provide anecdotal counter-example of there not being 100% toilet availability in all villages. But, my providing one counter-example in a whole country is not enough. I would gladly take 98% coverage. The bigger problem is that only 77% houselolds have access to toilets as it was in 2018. Hopefully, we have made a lot of progress in the last year. I bank on fact-check sites and independent verifiers. If they are wrong, who knows. I have not verified that the world is not flat either. We all trust some source at the end. We can only argue which source is trustworthy and which is not and then go with what data we have.

My broader point is that one can take up a small issue or three and do well in that. Or just declare victory irrespective of reality. However, real social progress involves a lot of things. Look at the End of Childhood Index. India is ranked 113 or so. We are behind even Sri Lanka. Whataboutism by saying that the UPA did not do much either is not useful to me. I do not care about the UPA. I am interested in progress. And by all objective social progress indictors, progress has been very slow and incremental and not leaps and bounds as the propagandists will tell you. Again, my own limited observations are in line with this.



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Re: Lok Sabha elections 2019

Post by Atithee » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:52 am

Not once have I said anything about Modi or NDA vs. UPA. It doesn’t matter to me who started what and who did more. When I look out in the morning from my train window, I just wish I can enjoy the morning beauty and not the defecation. Maybe we can not do much about ODF but we should not form and perpetuate a one-sided view due to fundamental aversion to a person or a government. Perhaps this article is more informative although I haven’t read it fully yet.

https://www.thehindu.com/thread/politic ... 191578.ece



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Re: Lok Sabha elections 2019

Post by prasen9 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:38 am

Atithee wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:52 am
When I look out in the morning from my train window, I just wish I can enjoy the morning beauty and not the defecation.
For me it is a bigger issue. It is a matter of public health.
... we should not form and perpetuate a one-sided view due to fundamental aversion to a person or a government.
Fully agree. However, I actually see a different problem here. We should not form and perpetuate a one-sided view due to psychophant-ic worshipping of a person or government. I have said that the NDA government has built things 50% faster and that has to be applauded. However, the Modi-bootlickers and the Bhakts in the country cannot come to accept that the UPA government built a substantial portion of these toilets and did it at a much cheaper cost to the exchequer. I know why. The reason is that they want to influence the ill-informed to pull a fast one and get their votes.
That is what political parties and their chamchas do and have been doing since eternity. I do want a balanced, truthful depiction of things.

I have never said it is an easy problem. It is extremely hard. Changing people's behavior and bringing lasting social change is hard. Any progress is better than no progress. Faster progress is better than slower progress. Progress that allows stealing a lot of money is not however but we have a long way to go wrt reducing theft from the exchequer. All I want is people to call a spade a spade and if any of my data is false and someone shows me that, I will accept that I was wrong.



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