Asian Tennis players' thread ...

[knarayen]

We had better do something in tennis. Nothing is happening, there is no excitement, and all our players are injured and generally getting old. Maybe Sumit and Karman are there for the next few years but who else? From being one of the best in Asia, we will become pretty much a nobody pretty soon, barring surprises. I guess chances for Asiad medals in tennis are getting slimmer and slimmer.

You’re sounding the alarm bells, and funnily I’m seeing lots of kids in the 11-14 age group playing in the US and also in India. What happened to Dhamne, he looked so promising?

[jayakris]

You’re sounding the alarm bells, and funnily I’m seeing lots of kids in the 11-14 age group playing in the US and also in India. What happened to Dhamne, he looked so promising?

Yes, I am only worried about the next 4 to 6 years. There are some young ones under age 16, who may turn out to be at a higher level than what we have seen from India in the past. At least hoping for it. But I don't know if anybody other than Sumit and maybe Karman will be there in 2 to 3 years, playing at the pro top-200 levels. I expect Yuki, RamK, Gunner and Ankita to be done with singles by then - barring any late career miracles which are very improbable after age 28 or so.

I put some comments on Manas in his thread.

[sameerph]

The Chinese players are really exceling on the challenger circuit this year. 22 year old Yibing Wu has made a comeback from injury and has won 3 challenge titles on hard courts in USA. Their #1 25 year old Zizhen Zhang won a challenger title on clay in Europe this week and has had 2 challenger finals and 3 semi finals this year. And this week 17 year Jerry Shang won Lexington challenger title.

Looks like soon China is going to finally make a breakthru on ATP tour.

Both Yibing Wu and Zhizhen Zhang have qualified for USO main draw. Zheng beats Bergs who had beaten Yuki in previous round. I think first time 2 Chinese players will be in the mens singles draw at a slam.

[Rajiv]

China,Korea Japan have left us far behind but now even lesser known Asian nations are embarrassing us.

Coleman Wong of Hkg whom I have known at close quarters, lost a tight 3 setter Singles Semi Final to the eventual Jr USO winner , this semi showing is in addition two Dbls Junior GS titles Coleman has in his cubbord.

Later Filipino Girl Alexandra Eala took Girls crown in an amazing achievement for Philipines and Asia, and Eala is not your Tret Huey type 100% American , only turning up for Philipines when needed as his mother is a Filipino, but Eala is fully homegrown talent born and bred in the Philippines have learnt her Tennis in the country.

Whereas we are struggling to even get a decent entry level player at Junior Slams, AITA should really hang their head in shame.

[Atithee]

^^^^We would be undisputed world champs in hanging heads in shame, if our bureaucrats fessed up. Rather, we are world champs in thumbing our noses. Sad sad sad.

[prasen9]

These junior winners often translate only to a world #70 or so but we don't even have that. We have produced our junior champs who then became so-sos. So, I'd not put too much stock on these. But, having that is better than not having any of them.

The real question is that if a small country like Tunisia, albeit that is at the cradle of Europe, can produce someone like Jabeur, why can't we have even a Sania after so long. Jabeur comes from a small town in Tunisia and then later their family moved to Sousse. She did train in Paris but that was when she was already made, at the age of 16. So, she is not a Europe-grown talent. Baffling. (Ok, it is a rhetorical question of sorts. I know what the issues are but still hard to accept.)

[Rajiv]

After acknowledging the reality that we don't even come close to these achievements but at the same time implying that these players become so-so 70's and not taking stock of these credible achievements is a case of sour grapes .

We would do anything to have such talents, but sadly nothing on the horizon for the next 5 to 10 years.

[prasen9]

I am not disagreeing with you on any of this except how much we value these achievements. If you think it is sour grapes, so be it. I would rather have a #1498 in the world than a #1499. Any progress is progress. I would love to have a junior #1 or a #10 or even a #15. Philippines or Hong Kong have a promising youngster. The point is that countries like ours and Philippines have these freaks that come out once in 20-30 years and then go away. See Sania Mirza. True progress is to churn out these folks once every five or ten years or have a continuity in developing these players. Just having a one off does not mean that these countries have suddenly become tennis powerhouses but just means that they have unearthed a generational talent wrt their tennis standards. In essence, a fluke such as the ones we have had a la Mirza, Yuki, LP, Somdev, etc.

As I have said, I would rather have someone ranked higher than lower in any level. However, in the long run, true progress would be for me to have a system that churns out such players with regularity. I am sure in the next 20 years we will have some precocious talent who will be a world #50-70 or so. True progress for me would be to have three top-100s regularly generation after generation. Then to have five of them, etc.

In that sense, I am not that enamoured with these one-offs by any country. If/when they keep producing such players with regularity, I will wake up and try to see what they did to see if we can copy them. Or if we get some one-off like Jabeur, I would really be excited. We have had these junior champions once in a while and that has got us not much in the world stage.

It's like saying that yes, I would be very happy to win $250 in a lottery than not. But, it is no big deal. Now, if I won a million dollars in a lottery that is great even if it is a one-time thing. Or maybe if I am winning $250 regularly every week or so investing less than that in the purchase price of tickets. I am acknowledging that $250 is greater than zero even if it is onetime while expressing my personal yardstick for becoming truly excited. That necessarily is not sour grapes because I won nothing and my neighbour won a one-time $250 lottery bounty. It is just a personal standard that is higher to be truly excited about something.

[sameerph]

These junior winners often translate only to a world #70 or so but we don't even have that. We have produced our junior champs who then became so-sos. So, I'd not put too much stock on these. But, having that is better than not having any of them.

But, who are the junior champs you are referring to. Generally, as we have discussed before, a best junior ranking would have multiplier effect of 7 or 8 when you try to equate that to pro rankings. So, ATP or WTA top 70-80 would mean top 10 ITF junior. And top 10 ITF means ranking at the end of the year, not interim top 10 which some Indian players have achieved after Indian/Asian ITF juniors which happen in early part of the year. The only one in last 15-20 years who has reached that top 10 level at the end of the year was Yuki. And he was headed for top 70-80 till injury hit him badly.

About others- Sumit was top 30 level in junior, which translates to at best top 200 in ATP, he had gone uptp #122 which is better, RamK , Prajnesh, Saketh did not play juniors much but I am pretty sure they would not have been better than top 30 level at that age and in ATP they have done better than that. Same with Sania won womens side, Ankita too.

Everyone has overachieved compared to their junior levels. So, it us a wrong notion that we have great juniors who do not replicate their juniors success to pros. It is more of a concern that for last 7-8 year since Sumit-Karman days we are not even producing juniors who are top 30 level any more. So, chances of anyone succeeding at pro level becomes even more remote.

[prasen9]

Oh, I am not saying that they underachieved. Yes, about a x7 multiplier for their best ranks and that too did not stay there for multiple years, etc.

The people we are supposed to be envious of and are proof that these countries are better than us are Wang with a ranking of #15. His year-end rankings were #30 and #50 or something like that. Eala's rankings were #11, #3 and #10. The #3 was in the covid year. These people are good but not that great, imho. Can they develop to be world-beaters? Maybe. But, I am not that excited by these junior "winners". Would we rather have them than not? Of course, yes.

I'd rather be envious of Paraguay's Vallejo or Nishesh, etc.

[prasen9]

So that is the answer to who the successor is.

[PKBasu]

It's what you do to follow-up on junior triumphs that counts. Ivan Lendl won the junior FO and Wimbledon titles in 1978, and went on to become an all-time great. Ramesh Krishnan succeeded him with both titles in 1979 (and also made the USO junior final). He went on to become a top-25 player, and remained in the top-50 for 6 years and top-100 for 12. A telling story is that, when Ramesh was about 23 or 24, Lendl took him to a gym for the first time in his life!! Ramesh did free-hand exercises and skipping, but had never been to a gym until the middle of his pro career!

[potos]

The people we are supposed to be envious of and are proof that these countries are better than us are Wang with a ranking of #15. His year-end rankings were #30 and #50 or something like that. Eala's rankings were #11, #3 and #10. The #3 was in the covid year. These people are good but not that great, imho. Can they develop to be world-beaters? Maybe. But, I am not that excited by these junior "winners". Would we rather have them than not? Of course, yes.

I'd rather be envious of Paraguay's Vallejo or Nishesh, etc.

Hi everyone! I have been a lurker here for over 15 years already mainly due to Somdev being a teammate of Treat Huey. Followed by Harsh ushering Treat to the Challenger level, and Treat doing the same for Purav as I like to believe. Yes, I am a Filipino who learned to love Indian tennis due to this site. I agree with Prasen, there’s really not much to envy on Eala’s case. She’s from a well-off family so she had excellent support system. She’s a scholar in Rafa’s academy, so that helped as well. Tennis here is far worse than what you have in India.

Although when we talk about rankings on her case, it’s probably important to note that she never really had a full schedule. And she was a yearend #10 when she was 14. As a matter of fact, she played a couple of J2 events in India when she was 13 and lost in the finals both times. She’s also currently in top 300 in the women’s tour. I’m not sure why her coaches are unable to improve her serve though, by far her biggest weakness.

[PKBasu]

The people we are supposed to be envious of and are proof that these countries are better than us are Wang with a ranking of #15. His year-end rankings were #30 and #50 or something like that. Eala's rankings were #11, #3 and #10. The #3 was in the covid year. These people are good but not that great, imho. Can they develop to be world-beaters? Maybe. But, I am not that excited by these junior "winners". Would we rather have them than not? Of course, yes.

I'd rather be envious of Paraguay's Vallejo or Nishesh, etc.

Hi everyone! I have been a lurker here for over 15 years already mainly due to Somdev being a teammate of Treat Huey. Followed by Harsh ushering Treat to the Challenger level, and Treat doing the same for Purav as I like to believe. Yes, I am a Filipino who learned to love Indian tennis due to this site. I agree with Prasen, there’s really not much to envy on Eala’s case. She’s from a well-off family so she had excellent support system. She’s a scholar in Rafa’s academy, so that helped as well. Tennis here is far worse than what you have in India.

Although when we talk about rankings on her case, it’s probably important to note that she never really had a full schedule. And she was a yearend #10 when she was 14. As a matter of fact, she played a couple of J2 events in India when she was 13 and lost in the finals both times. She’s also currently in top 300 in the women’s tour. I’m not sure why her coaches are unable to improve her serve though, by far her biggest weakness.

How wonderful to have a post like this from you, potos, a long-standing "lurker" here, as you put it. I lived in the Philippines for a year and a half, and Eala was already quite a star then. Treat Huey has had a longer (and, in doubles, a more successful career than Harsh, Somdev or Purav, the 3 Indians he was associated with), so the Filippino/a are doing something right, even if the system is just as broken as ours is!

[prasen9]

BTW, I am not saying that Eala is not great thing to have. We do not have anyone at that level now and I am indeed envious. But, I am saying that that does not mean that the Philipinx system has gotten better as you confirm. In the meantime, all the best to her. Thank you for pointing out that she is underranked because she has not played a full schedule. Then, it is even more impressive. The problem is that our systems produce one such player in 20-30 years or even 10 years and then nothing. A true improvement in the system would be when there is a constant stable of players coming out with some regularity.

As an Asian, I will be rooting for Eala. She is indeed only 17 and hope she goes a long way.