Sumit Nagal thread

All posts regarding specific player and player fans threads are in this forum

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 35771
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 55 times
Contact:

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by jayakris »

prashanthm wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 6:13 pm But he's in Perugia now, 10 hr drive to Frankfurt.... Hopefully doesn't need it....
Oh yeah, he left Heilbronn... :tomato: So, zoom call to the doctor!
User avatar
prashanthm
Member
Member
Posts: 5064
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:36 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: MA
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by prashanthm »

atula wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 6:20 pm I remember Sampras playing Six Consecutive Weeks on the trot in 1998 to Finish World No 1..Sumit should take a leaf out of that prioritising health of Course at the 1St Instance ..// :goodluck:
^^^ I'm sure he'll take a bandage out of it in his current state... :p
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19489
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 20 times
Contact:

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by prasen9 »

Top players play two weeks in and out gruelling five hour matches multiple times to win a grand slam and often play several weeks in a row going deep. Our players seem to be too fragile to do that. Wonder why. Lack of fitness training in the formative years? Sumit got identified early at a young age but maybe not early enough. :-(

Anyway, stays at #73. One more win will take him to #72. But, of course, the main gains are the points, etc. even if the ranking does not move much. Hope he gets into ATP tournaments and wins a few rounds due to his ranking, will he get direct entries now in the hardcourt season after Wimbledon?
User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 35771
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 55 times
Contact:

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by jayakris »

prasen9 wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:55 pmTop players play two weeks in and out gruelling five hour matches multiple times to win a grand slam and often play several weeks in a row going deep.
The grand slams give multiple off-days. If there are off-days, things are okay. It is when you play 7 or 8 matches in 8 to 10 days, that problems start. 7 grand slam matches are usually played over 14 days. Big difference.

I am actually less concerned now, because of the off day tomorrow for Sumit. If he were to go out there for a doubles match or something tomorrow, I would be really concerned.

And top players (most of them) do NOT play more than 4 weeks at a stretch. They do watch it quite well. And the teams around them usually know what to do, including massages and even IVs and all that... Indians may be a tad bit weaker (not sure if the data would show that), but I don't think this is an Indian issue. Everybody faces this issue.
User avatar
arjun2761
Member
Member
Posts: 7530
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:26 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: US
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by arjun2761 »

Yes, Zverev has withdrawn from this week's Stuttgart event in his home country. Of the top 12 in the world rankings, only one of them is playing this week. I don't think top players play more than 2-3 weeks in a row if they go deep in those weeks.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19489
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 20 times
Contact:

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by prasen9 »

Perhaps I am over-reading this. Yes, slams give rest days. But, they also play 5 sets. So, 7 5 set games ... In a non-slam week, you have maybe 5 games of 3 sets. So, max 35 sets in two weeks vs 15 sets in one week. Anyway, seldom do games go 5 sets and players do not play 35 sets in two weeks but to win you need 3 sets in a slam and 2 in a normal tournament. Thus, you need to win 21 sets in two weeks vs 10 sets in a week - not that much different. Of course, most players do not go 7 matches (and most don't go 5 matches either in a non-slam week). Non-slam tournaments by definition have more rest and less concentrated playing time (which increases injury risk) because they are best of three sets vs five sets. I will try to figure out what the average load-density (meaning set/time) is slam/non-slam ... I do not think slams are easier on the body per se. Would be happy to look at average real loads and injury rates if it is easily available somewhere ...

No top-player plays more than 3 weeks in a row and they often rest, etc. But, top players play two and sometimes three weeks in a row and the top players often go deep. A lot of them play two weeks in a row and go deep.

Maybe the masseuse, monitoring, coaching, etc. helps them stay fit longer.

Here Sumit largely did not have much stress before Heilbronn. And, from the first match was not fully fit. I hope he gets fit and goes deep this week and does not injure anything further.
User avatar
Atithee
Member
Member
Posts: 6038
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:14 pm
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by Atithee »

Lately, I feel some in this forum have started making strange cases to cut Sumit slack and not call a spade a spade. I can understand why though.
User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 35771
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 55 times
Contact:

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by jayakris »

Prasen, you are right about grand slams. 5 matches there is equivalent to 8 in regular high level tour and challenger events. Actually it is tough for guys to go more than 5 matches at grand slams (advance beyond QF, that is) in 9 or 10 days, too. That is usually at least 18 to 22 sets and is actually a bit tougher than playing 8 matches (maybe 17 to 20 sets) to be in a final and a QF in two regular weekly events in about as many days (where Sumit will be on).

There are only about 15-20 players even in the top-100 capable of going past QFs in grand slams, and no Indian has done it since 1961. Vijay Amritraj could not do it in 4 attempts, just like very few Indians have been able to go beyond 8 matches in successive weeks at the high challenger or ATP tour level. Vijay could get 2 sets up on Connors in a QF but Connors won the next three in 1981. The same Connors was mostly getting done by SFs if you check his record too. One big reason why we have not had other Federers, Nadals and Djokovics (even in the past) is simply that many other nearly as talented players just did not have the bodies that could last 7 matches and 27-30 sets during 2 weeks time and again, year after year like these three have done. These three are on another planet in physical durability over 13-14 days. Again, at any given time, there are probably only 15 or 20 players capable of lasting 6 matches at rand slams in the ATP. Most of them probably for only 2 or 3 years in their career.

One difference in grand slams is that it is more of a clear stamina and tiredness issue there, because of the 4 to 6 days of breaks. Normally, no more than 1 mach in 2 days. It could become a plain muscle and tendon/cartilage issue also at the regular events in two weeks. Wear and tear start. The 4 break days you get at grand slams between the 5 matches to QFs allows some such issues to heal and not become bad, but you only get maybe 2 days break at regular events in 10 days when you play a Final and a QF in successive weeks. Still okay at lower challengers, and definitely okay in the ITF events but not at the 100K+ level Sumit is playing now. It is tough. I am glad he is holding up though.

Yet another issue is the style of play. Federer/Nadal/Djokovic has a lot of variety in the shot-making and it is not the same kind of repetitive motions that some other players have. Sumit uses some of the same shots way too many times in matches, for instance. I don't know if people have looked into that matter and its effect on injuries and durability. It seems to make some logical sense to me, to consider that too.
atula
Member
Member
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:32 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: Mumbai
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by atula »

Incidentally this is Sumit Nagal’s Fifth Consecutive Week of Play right from the Bordeaux Challenger.. Up till this week..!! :notworthy:
User avatar
arjun2761
Member
Member
Posts: 7530
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:26 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: US
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by arjun2761 »

^^^He was one and done in first 3 of those weeks. Playing 7 matches in last 9 days is what is far more likely to be problematic.
User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 35771
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 55 times
Contact:

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by jayakris »

At the Challenger 125 in Perugia, Italy (Clay)

[QF] (6) Sumit Nagal (IND,77) vs (ALT) Maks Kasnikowski (POL,243)

Maks beat the 3rd seed Borna Coric 75 64, which was not entirely surprising, considering that Coric was on a 3-9 run in matches over the last 3-4 months and has been listlessly losing quite often. I would have preferred Coric in the QF than the 20 year old who is in great form with a 9-1 run over the latest 3 weeks.
User avatar
prashanthm
Member
Member
Posts: 5064
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:36 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: MA
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by prashanthm »

Drafted this post in the morning, just realized that I never posted it. Probably too outdated now...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coric lost.... So, it'll be Kasnikowski who is in the draw as an Alt and had a couple of gud straight set wins in the first two rounds, the last one against Coric....

Let's see how recovered Sumit will be for this match tomorrow.... :goodluck:

At Perugia Challenger 125, Italy (Clay)

[QF] (6) Sumit Nagal (IND,77) v. (Alt) Maks Kasnikowski (POL,243)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
User avatar
prashanthm
Member
Member
Posts: 5064
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:36 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: MA
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by prashanthm »

Takes the first set 6-4 with a break at the very end. Didn't face a breakpoint on own serve which is gud...

Just as a said that, Sumit had to face 4 break points in the first service game of the second set, but he was able to save them all to hold for 1-0*
Sumit had a break point in the return game, but he couldn't convert... *1-1

Perugia Challenger 125, Italy (Clay)

[QF] (6) Sumit Nagal (IND,77) v. (Alt) Maks Kasnikowski (POL,243) 64 *11
Sanjay
Member
Member
Posts: 778
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by Sanjay »

Sumit has withdrawn from Sassuolo so his next tournament will be Wimbledon after a few weeks.
User avatar
prashanthm
Member
Member
Posts: 5064
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:36 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: MA
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Sumit Nagal thread

Post by prashanthm »

Sanjay wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 12:39 pm Sumit has withdrawn from Sassuolo so his next tournament will be Wimbledon after a few weeks.
Officially, yes! But couldn't he signup as an ALT for Eastbourne or Mallorca qualies the week before Wimbledon? Or is that only possible if he was in the original qualies list?
Post Reply