Tara Iyer thread

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BSharma
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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by BSharma » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:06 am

I do not want to sound as if I was a great table-tennis player because I was not, but I did play many practice matches against excellent players and got formal training from a good coach.  I did not participate in many tournaments because sports was not going to put bread on my table.  My dabbling in table tennis afforded me a chance to watch top Japanese, Korean and Indian players from close and how they tried to improve their game.

Jay, I was not ranked among the top state players, but I was good enough to beat them once in a while and played with them for an hour or more on many days in a month.  As you wrote Jay, my coach would drill into our heads various shots until we could play them instinctively.  Construction of a point is not so much about playing a series of predetermined shots and then going for a kill, but trying to find the strengths and weaknesses of your opponent and finding ways to put your strengths against his weaknesses.  One has to constantly think during a match – not during a point but in between the points – to adapt to the game situation.  There are days when your best shot does not work and then you rely on other shots while trying to get your best shot to start working.  Some days everything works and you feel like you can beat all-comers. 

I continue to have trouble completely understanding the term “No Think” because I believe that all top players including Federer and Tiger Woods “think” at practice sessions and in a match.  I am sure that Federer was thinking how to beat Isner during his match at US Open and Tiger Woods was thinking what he needs to do to make a birdie to win the PGA Championship in Tulsa; however, both of them had a clear and uncluttered mind when they executed their shots.

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by shibi » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:53 am

I generally agree with BSharmaji but it isn’t so easy. In my playing days- doesn't matter what level I was in- I was someone who practiced Jay's 'no think' theory and depended on my instincts rather than my thinking. The following is from my experience:

i) Instinctive players can be exceptional when things go their way. But they can be ordinary on some days.

ii) When they are not having their best days, players who are much less talented might be able to beat them by 'out thinking' them.

iii) It is extremely difficult for instinctive players to become thinking players. They enjoy tremendously when they win by playing their natural game and not by ‘out thinking’ their opponents.

iv) In the end, such players may be less successful than thinking players but they are a joy to watch whenever they play their natural game.

v) When such players aren't able to play their natural game (either because their game didn't click on that day or because of some smart thinking from the opponent), a keen spectator might say 'what a waste of talent'.

We are seeing the same with Sania (and possibly Tara). Sania is an instinctive player and would like to remain one (that is why she said that winning by moonballing isn’t going to bring her satisfaction). It is easy for us to say why doesn’t she start thinking and constructing points but it is not easy for her to do. I have been there before (though at a much lower level in terms of the game) and I know how one feels in that situation. They can be trained to improve the various aspects of their game but they will continue playing their natural game because that is what they enjoy doing. They are not practical thinkers and for them the end result, though important, is secondary.

Jay has been saying (more or less) that ‘no thinking’ theory is what she should continue using in match situations and may posters disagree- as if she had a choice. I myself have felt frustrated at seeing her game but the fact remains that Sania is a ‘no thinking’ player and probably will remain one. Improving her fitness and serve will bring her better success but it will be extremely difficult to transform herself into a thinking player. There is no ‘Sania’ if that happens i.e. she will stop enjoying her game, which is not really a wise move.

To me, Sania will ever be a ‘no thinking’ player whether we, her parents, her coach or even the whole world would like her to be otherwise. We might see some hints of incorporating ‘thinking’ in her game, but I don’t expect a major shift in her approach in the near future.

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by v george » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:14 am

There are several changes in the way the modern game is played and the tactics used that from the past. One of them is the way power is used as a tactical weapon.Power and efficient court usage has become the name of the game. Power is used to create outright winners, open up the courts, short balls, stick volleys etc;

Power is mainly created from the body's segments. Top players are trained to trust their body and execute the strokes instinctively. There is no thinking involved. Thinking sends images to your brain often negative. There is an uncompromising trust between body and mind. You see players making mistakes on critical points.  You make more mistakes by thinking.  It is a very challenging task to coach players no to think. 

As for Tara it is good to see that she is hitting the ball. Two years ago I saw her in Costa Rica ITF G1. She had the game almost at the level of Sania's but was so nervous and did not execute the strokes and resulted in a tame loss.

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by amr090 » Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:42 pm

interesting you say that, tara just sent me a message saying she was right with panetta till midway through the first set and then started to get nervous.  she realized she was playing right with one of the top players in the world and then things went down hill from there as she started to get nervous.  however, i think she has resolved to not let that her happen to her again on a big stage...so i tihnk next time she will be ready and rise to the occasion.

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by Atithee » Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:19 pm

I have given it a lot of thought.  I think the best I came up with is that "No Think" is equal to "No Fear."  ITW, it means once you have the belief in your shots, it doesn't matter who you are playing.  Just go for what you've practiced for hours on the courts.  The thinking part does play a role - one must have several of such shots in one's arsenal.  If the opponent actually "thinks" and tries to take your main weapon away, you must "think" between points/games and start unleashing your other weapon without "thinking" about its possible success rate when executing the shot.

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by arjun2761 » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:02 pm

Amen!  This is exactly what the likes of Tiger, Federer, MJ etc. do.

While the experiences of rank amateurs like Shibi may be interesting for us sitting in an armchair, it would be foohardy for any one with world class aspirations to draw any lessons from it.  To be the best, you have to learn from the best....

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by sameerph » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:30 am

At $ 25 k Challanger ,Nottingham (GBR)

[R1] IYER Tara (IND,354) v. (Q) SMITH Anna (GBR,487)

Go Tara.

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by jaydeep » Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:58 am

At $25k Nottingham Challanger, Great Britain

[R1] IYER Tara (IND,354) l (Q) SMITH Anna (GBR,487) 57 46

Doubles -
[R1] BURYACHOK Irina (UKR)/ IYER Tara (IND) l BALDUCCI Alice (ITA)/ SABINO Lisa (ITA) 46 76(2) (8)10

Bad result for Tara by her own standard.

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by iShUuU » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:44 pm

Tara would definitely benefit from a stint with either Bob Brett, the coach who guided Sania early in her career when she was making the initial inroads into the big league, or Pat Etcheberry, who had trained a legion of stars such as Pete Sampras, Andre Agassi, Jim Courier, Jennifer Capriati, Martina Hingis and Justine Henin apart from our own Leander Paes.

“We are looking at the options of high quality training. We hope that Tara’s recent success would help her gain financial support so that our plans could be put into practice,” said Parameswaran.

http://www.sportstaronnet.com/stories/2 ... 203000.htm

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by Atithee » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:13 pm

ishan Akhtar wrote: Tara would definitely benefit from a stint with either Bob Brett, the coach who guided Sania early in her career when she was making the initial inroads into the big league, or Pat Etcheberry, who had trained a legion of stars such as Pete Sampras, Andre Agassi, Jim Courier, Jennifer Capriati, Martina Hingis and Justine Henin apart from our own Leander Paes.

“We are looking at the options of high quality training. We hope that Tara’s recent success would help her gain financial support so that our plans could be put into practice,” said Parameswaran.

http://www.sportstaronnet.com/stories/2 ... 203000.htm
Ishan, thanks for the efforts in making your posts easy to read.

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by 10nis_ace » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:35 pm

I almost couldn't believe it's Ishan writing that. I 'applaud' you for that.

But Etcheberry would be an overkilll for Tara. Henin got overdose of training there and was out injured for a few months after her stint there... (so I heard ESPN commentators say sometime back).

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by iShUuU » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:03 pm

Thankx Atithee and 10nis_ace :)
actually I am sick today perhaps that is the reason why I commited mistake today ;) 
Last edited by iShUuU on Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by jaydeep » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:52 pm

Tara is down under for playing Challenger series ... Good to see Tara is playing in different continents for getting experiance of different type of courts and weather condition ... Mixing right kind of tournaments to try out new things.

At Rockhampton Challenger, she is playing against same level of player in the first round.

At $25K Rockhampton Challenger, Australia

[R1] (8) IYER Tara (IND,359) vs WONG Pauline (NED,360)

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by PKBasu » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:46 am

Good to see Tara playing in Australia, getting used to the place in case she gets the wild card to the AO. Unfortunately, Iroda Tulyaganova hasn't been playing much, and still ranked only 251 -- so the chances of her making it to top-100 (and so not using the wildcard) are looking pretty slim. She made the SF at the Sunfeast Open last year, but failed to turn up this year. She seems content to just wait for the AO to come around to begin her comeback  :(.

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Re: Tara Iyer thread

Post by jaydeep » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:15 am

At $25K Rockhampton Challenger, Australia

[R1] (8) IYER Tara (IND,359) bt WONG Pauline (NED,360) 76(10) 62

[R2] (8) IYER Tara (IND,359) vs (Q) STEPHENSON Robin (USA,582)

Very good positive start for Tara down under against similar rank player.

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