Karman Kaur Thandi

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Saniapower
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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by Saniapower » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:00 pm

Go to Sharm El Sheikh, Egypt, a beautiful tourist resort, a 15K event almost every week. Go there and play with Kanika. Kanika is doing the right thing and that's why her game is improving steadily and in contrast her game is Knocking on the gates of hell. Fact is Karman Kaur Thandi is not even good for 15K, may be good for 10K, 5K etc. If she doesn't choose 15K events right now as I'm saying for years she will be forced to do so sooner than later. good luck.

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by prasen9 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:10 pm

What's wrong with the 25k she is playing this week?

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by PKBasu » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:24 pm

Terrible loss in singles against a 26 year old with a career high ranking of 564. Gervais seems to be in a rich vein of form this week, having qualified in and beaten the 7th seed by an even better score in R1 -- and having made a $15K final six weeks ago. But Karman should be winning these matches day in and day out.

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by Sin Hombre » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:33 am

prasen9 wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:10 pm
What's wrong with the 25k she is playing this week?
She lost <saniapower logic>

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by jayakris » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:09 am

I sometimes agree with saniapower. Not with such harsh value judgments like she isn't good enough for 25K level etc, but rather due to the fact that I like young players getting a lot more matches allowing some more experimentation to improve your game. Maybe she should still mix in some easier events. It is when you are basically unbeatable at that level that you should get out of them permanently and stay at a higher level.

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by prasen9 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:13 am

I'm not saying he is wrong, per se. I wanted him to explain a bit more. I think if you are not good enough for a particular level your ranking would go down anyway and you will be forced to play the lower level.

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by vatsal323 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:46 am

Karman has a slight niggle. She has pulled her left hamstring. That played its part. Maybe RamK is carrying a similar niggle. We sometimes discount the fact that these guys will play on with a lot of wear and tear in their bodies.

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by PKBasu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:10 am

It's pretty telling (about the effort involved in doubles) that a pulled hamstring isn't hampering her success in doubles!

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by sameerph » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:52 am

It is nonsensical to say that she does not belong to the 25K level. If one looks at the stats, she started playing 25K tournaments exclusively since this May. After that she has played 12 such tournaments, reached QF or better in 7 of them (i.e more than 50%) and lost in first round only in 2 . I do not think she was seeded in any of them. So, she did better than her ranking in more than half of those tournaments. So, how can one say things like she is playing above level or she is overranked as Saniapower has been screaming.

Jay, I get your point about mixing up tournaments. But, it is a hard grind to get points and rise up the rankings playing 15K level. Even this week, Karman got 5 points by winning 1 round. At 15K level, she has to reach the final to get more points than that. The disparity in points is too much. 25K level is more like a challenger level in women as compared to futures.

Instead of mixing up between the level of tournaments, she is mixing up where she is playing - first Asia, then US, now Europe. I like this schedule which should eventually improve her game.

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by vatsal323 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:06 am

PKBasu wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:10 am
It's pretty telling (about the effort involved in doubles) that a pulled hamstring isn't hampering her success in doubles!
You can still manage in doubles with restricted movement. It hurts you in singles.

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by jayakris » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:07 am

sameer, actually you're right. I was going to write that if you are getting about 2 to 2.5 matches (average) per event at a certain level, you certainly belong there and do not need to go down. That was sort of a number I had in mind. My point was basically on getting enough matches to keep fine-tuning one's game. I had not checked closely on how Karman was doing at the 25K level, but thought she was not doing too terribly to say that she should stay away from it. In that case, your best option is exactly what you said - to go to a few cheaper events at that level, because you need the points too.

vatsal, if she has a hamstring niggle, it is fully understandable how she can't beat better players in singles. Then, her win against Akgul is really remarkable. And you're right; there is a big difference between singles and doubles on that count. Most players would try to make you run left-right-left at the back end and you cannot win any of those points if you have a hamstring. That is never a strategy in doubles. Making people run is not a strategy at all in doubles. And I believe hamstring pulls never really affect the serve and other things, so you can win in doubles as long as you're not in bad pain. But hamstring injuries sometimes need several weeks to get over though.

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by VReddy » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:13 am

sameerph wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:52 am
It is nonsensical to say that she does not belong to the 25K level. If one looks at the stats, she started playing 25K tournaments exclusively since this May. After that she has played 12 such tournaments, reached QF or better in 7 of them (i.e more than 50%) and lost in first round only in 2 . I do not think she was seeded in any of them. So, she did better than her ranking in more than half of those tournaments. So, how can one say things like she is playing above level or she is overranked as Saniapower has been screaming.

Jay, I get your point about mixing up tournaments. But, it is a hard grind to get points and rise up the rankings playing 15K level. Even this week, Karman got 5 points by winning 1 round. At 15K level, she has to reach the final to get more points than that. The disparity in points is too much. 25K level is more like a challenger level in women as compared to futures.

Instead of mixing up between the level of tournaments, she is mixing up where she is playing - first Asia, then US, now Europe. I like this schedule which should eventually improve her game.
Amen to that. Her win rate in the $25K events has been gradually increasing: 2015 - 0%; 2016 - 50%; 2017 - 63%; Thats some constant improvement. Infact from what I see, players tend to graduate to the next level as their win-loss ratio moves into the 70% bucket and if we go with the current trajectory, she will be in that bucket around end of next year (there are multiple variables at play ofcourse). Again take it with a pinch of salt as I have only started playing Tennis after I have moved to Switzerland, so won't know the intricate detail and the stats show only part of the story.

Source: https://www.coretennis.net/tennis-playe ... stats.html

Regd the injury. Videos of the last game from both the matches. The extra strapping on the left leg in the second match is definitely worrisome :(

2nd round loss: https://www.facebook.com/openfeminin50/ ... 995288675/
1st round win: https://www.facebook.com/openfeminin50/ ... 532037488/

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by sameerph » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:29 am

VReddy wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:13 am
Amen to that. Her win rate in the $25K events has been gradually increasing: 2015 - 0%; 2016 - 50%; 2017 - 63%; Thats some constant improvement. Infact from what I see, players tend to graduate to the next level as their win-loss ratio moves into the 70% bucket and if we go with the current trajectory, she will be in that bucket around end of next year (there are multiple variables at play ofcourse). Again take it with a pinch of salt as I have only started playing Tennis after I have moved to Switzerland, so won't know the intricate detail and the stats show only part of the story.
Thanks for pulling out that data, Vishnu. There is clearly a big improvement in her game since last year. Last year's 50% win record was also in a smaller number of matches. It would have been even lower if she had played same number of matches as this year. 63% is pretty good win % at this level. On the same website, I checked the details of our #1 Ankita Raina and she has a win % of 54% at 25K level this year. But, she played more 60K events which are tougher and her overall win % for both is 59%. If one gives a premium for 60K wins, both can be said to be around same level.

If Karman can continue that upward trajectory next year, I expect her to target top 200 by end of next year and to be playing regularly at 60K level.

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by prasen9 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:25 pm

If she is injured, it makes more sense to play the higher ranked tournaments. That way she is getting more points in one round than having to play all the way to the finals to make the same amount of points. She plays fewer games and gets longer rests so that she can still pick up some points and rest her injury. Everything is not so cut and dry. We certainly do not have full information. I try not to second guess the player unless it is screamingly obvious that he or she is playing an asinine schedule.

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Re: Karman Kaur Thandi

Post by jaydeep » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:22 pm

As Karman was injured her hamstring in her singles match, so that may be the reason for retiring from the final ... I m hoping not a serious injury threat or lay-off.

At $25K ITF Women's Tennis Tournament 2017, Cherboug-en-Cotentin, France

Doubles Final
Samantha Murray (GBR)/ Karman Kaur Thandi (IND) l (4) Manon Arcangioli (FRA)/ Sherazad Reix (FRA) 1-3 retd.

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