Doha ATP 250/Dubai ATP500- February 18-March 5, 2023

[Dinesh]

Yuki is in the singles qualifying draw. YukiSaki, Rohan/Matt in the doubles list.

QR1 (ALT) Yuki Bhambri (684) vs (7) Pavel Kotov (RUS, 126)

[arjun2761]

I assume Yuki is doing this for the cash. I think losing in first round of singles qualies pays slightly more than the shared money split for losing in first round main draw doubles.

[Omkara]

First round loss in q1 $4000
First round loss in MD1 for doubles $3500 or 1750/head.

~$6000 assured. Not bad

[jayakris]

Gosh. That is a lucky $4K he made from signing in. Normally a 600+ ranked player would have no chance to get an ALT spot and make that much money. Was there no other doubles guys or anybody there with a higher ranking to sign ahead of him? Cool stuff, anyway

[arjun2761]

First round loss in q1 $4000
First round loss in MD1 for doubles $3500 or 1750/head.

~$6000 assured. Not bad

Not sure the above the accurate for dubs. First round loss in dubs nets $7520 for the pair, so around $3760 for each player. So guaranteed around 7700+.

[Omkara]

Ok. I don't know about Doha as the doubles draw is not out yet. I looked into a similar 250 ATP tournament. Maybe Doha has slightly higher prize money

[Omkara]

Gosh. That is a lucky $4K he made from signing in. Normally a 600+ ranked player would have no chance to get an ALT spot and make that much money. Was there no other doubles guys or anybody there with a higher ranking to sign ahead of him? Cool stuff, anyway

Yes quite cool. I remember lot of doubles players signing up for challenger qualies. At times taking a week off to play singles in a futures tournament. I guess to keep their game sharp.

[sameerph]

[Q1] (ALT) Yuki Bhambri (IND,684) l. (7) Pavel Kotov (RUS,126) 63 36 57

Yuki had a matchpoint serving at 5-4, 40-30 in third set but could not convert.

Quite amazing with virtually no singles practice or at least match practice he almost beats a 126th ranked player. Somehow, if Yuki still plays singles he can get to top 100 level. Unfortunate that he is not doing it.

[arjun2761]

Yuki has a chronic injury somewhere (likely knee) which makes it difficult for him to play singles. If he had somehow pulled out this win, he would pretty much have mailed in his next match in singles.

His main focus is in dubs which has far less physical stress, so hopefully YukiSaki can get at least one win in doubles.

[jayakris]

Yuki has a chronic injury somewhere (likely knee) which makes it difficult for him to play singles. If he had somehow pulled out this win, he would pretty much have mailed in his next match in singles.

No doubt. If he had won this, he would have got some more money, but would not be able to play and win the Q2. But it was nice to see that he still tried to win this match.

So unfortunate that his knee issue never got handled. We all felt it and could predict even 15 years ago when he was a junior, that a knee injury was only waiting to happen. Just seeing his frame and lower body was enough. Even now, one look at his legs will tell you that his knee injury was no surprise, from pure physics. Was it possible to strengthen his legs long ago as a junior? I don't know. It might have been, I suppose, but we know that it never happened. He could have become so much more in singles... Oh well.

[Rajiv]

Even now, one look at his legs will tell you that his knee injury was no surprise, from pure physics.

If looking at legs is the criteria then Prajnesh, Rohan both these players legs resemble match sticks (and even thinner than Yuki) and would have crumbled within few years of them starting the career, but they have survived admirably and are even older than Yuki , since they did the right things in that area , while Yuki probably didn't do it properly.

[arjun2761]

^^^^^ Sorry the comparison to Rohan is somewhat laughable. Rohan never cracked the top 200 in singles and while he did have a few good matches here and there (in Davis Cup IIRC), he likely rode a big serve to do that somewhat akin to a very poor version of Isner who is still going strong without being athletically accomplished simply because he has a dominant serve. Yes, Rohan is an outstanding doubles player, but doubles is practically golf with quicker reflexes. Players are very good in the 30s quite routinely in doubles.

Prajnesh is a more interesting comparison in that he has been a very good singles player into his 30s. IIRC, he was also injury prone earlier in his career and didn't crack the top 300 until he was 27 years old but has come back and stayed reasonably fit and also does play a lot of long grinding rallies in his matches. I suspect he has a pretty good fitness regime although don't know for sure. See this image with another pro a couple of years ago. Not sure that your characterization of his legs is accurate.

Note that the key to athletic fitness is a strong core and power that comes from the so-called posterior power chain (which includes the glutes and hamstrings) in addition to the anterior power chain. The quads are a decent proxy for the glutes/hamstrings in that if they are developed it is quite likely the player has also worked the symmetrical muscles on the other side.

Folks that lack a strong core/legs initially over compensate with their shoulders and arms. I recall Yuki having elbow issues as his first major injury scare. Based on photos, he did work on his core and legs later but perhaps it was not enough and a little late.

Meanwhile, our Javelin ace Neeraj Chopra also had an upper body injury earlier in his career. He seems to have really worked on his core strength per what he does here. Fingers crossed that he stays injury free through the rest of his career.

[Rajiv]

^^^ Yes you may find it laughable, as you are not quite clear on the essence of the discussion and as a result drawing comparison between Rohan and Yuki playing records , which is not what the discussion is all about, as we know what level of achievements the Trio have reached in their respective careers

The conversation was about fitness level in which Yuki has to give up on Singles career at 29, also for the last 2 to 3 years his singles play was sporadic, so literally had to give up on Singles play when he was 27 years, whereas Praj at 33 is at it and even Rohan played singles till he was 33/34 and at 42 is still playing dbls and both of them didn't have any issues with their fitness while Yuki had.

So the discussion was about physical endurance and conditioning of the leg area and who managed that area better and not about the playing merits of the players or their achievements.

[prasen9]

How do we know that it was a management, nutrition issue and not a genetic, natural issue? Is everything in the body engineer-able? Also, how do we know that Yuki did not do anything? If anything, their family decided to put more planning and money into Yuki at the detriment of some of his older sisters who were on paper not as talented as him. Maybe he tried everything and this is what it is. I actually believe that.

Reductio ad absurdum, do we say the same thing to Nadal? If Nadal had strengthened his legs more, he would have gone to play until he was 50. So, he is to blame for his injuries. There are limits to what we can do with training and the body and every body is different.

[jayakris]

Prajnesh's legs are also thin (and so are many Indians' in many sports) but I think Prajnesh has a tad bit stronger-looking legs than Yuki. I had always cringed looking at Yuki. I do an occasional cringing at Prajnesh's legs too, but he has survived with that. The civil engineer in me would wonder about the load carrying capacity ... Yuki's always looked close to an extreme case of thin legs on the tour though. The question is whether he didn't try much to see if it could get better, or whether he got bad advice in that, or if it was just not getting better despite everything proper that he tried with the right advice. I am not an expert to opine one way or other.