Davis Cup 2018 - India

This is a forum where users can follow various tournaments that have Indian participation or are held in India. GrandSlams and Davis Cup should also be discussed here.

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prasen9
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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by prasen9 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:35 am

sameerph wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:55 am
It was clear that the pair of Rohan and Purav lost a perfectly winnable match. The result of that match could have been different if we had a more carefully chosen team and a win in that match would have made a difference between a win and a loss in the tie as a whole.
Agree with what you are saying Sameer. However, I do not know who that "carefully chosen team" should be. Can anyone here do that analysis taking at least this instance? Who do you think would have won the match (with high probability)? And, why? I do not have the information to make that decision with any degree of certainty or even strong gut feeling. I would be glad to hear from people here.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by Prashant » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:20 am

I agree with Arjun & PKB that IF there was a pair with some experience playing with each other, I'd pick them first. If there is no such pair, i.e. our four doubles worthies are recalcitrant about partnering, then I'd pick Purav Raja & either Leander or Divij, because at least there is some history of Purav succeeding with those two guys. I wouldn't pick Rohan, regardless of how much higher he is ranked than the others, because we have NO evidence that he can pair with someone as a scratch pairing and succeed. If he agrees to play 2-3 tournaments with one of the other guys, then sure pick him first.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by prasen9 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:17 am

This is my point. If you read the last page or two, everyone is hedging using a lot of if-then-else statements. There is no pair that we think is demonstrably better than another. So it does not really matter. I am still waiting for someone to make a definitive case with whatever evidence they want to beyond I think they are the best type evidence to argue for one particular pair. Whenever we have had a definitive pair, the wisdom of the crowd (here and elsewhere) would converge. The fact that we do not have such agreement and there are many options/pairings being floated out means that it does not really matter who we choose. At least on paper, we are not able to tell a priori who would likely be more successful.

Of course, if there was a #1 doubles pair, I would pick them too. Especially given the 3+2 allowed in the team now.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by PKBasu » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:22 am

Prashant wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:20 am
I agree with Arjun & PKB that IF there was a pair with some experience playing with each other, I'd pick them first. If there is no such pair, i.e. our four doubles worthies are recalcitrant about partnering, then I'd pick Purav Raja & either Leander or Divij, because at least there is some history of Purav succeeding with those two guys. I wouldn't pick Rohan, regardless of how much higher he is ranked than the others, because we have NO evidence that he can pair with someone as a scratch pairing and succeed. If he agrees to play 2-3 tournaments with one of the other guys, then sure pick him first.
This is the nub of the issue. Rohan Bopanna has one of the worst Davis Cup records -- the very worst among the major doubles specialists who have played DC for India. His doubles record is 8-7, compared with Anand Amritraj's 21-14, Vijay's 18-10, Bhupathi's 27-6, Ramesh Krishnan's 6-2, Ramanathan Krishnan's 19-9, Premjit Lall's 24-12, Jaidip Mukerjea's 23-12, and Leander Paes' 42-13.

It is risible that Bopanna is considered an automatic choice for the Davis Cup team despite this record.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by PKBasu » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:30 am

One of the best doubles wins we have in recent years was the 2014 win over Serbia, when Bopanna-Paes beat Zimonjic-Bozoljac in a 5-setter (8-6 in the fifth). That was against a world-class pairing, and a really big win. With Mahesh as captain, two things are clear: Rohan will be in the team, and Leander will be out. That is ridiculous!

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by knarayen » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:55 am

PKBasu wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:30 am
One of the best doubles wins we have in recent years was the 2014 win over Serbia, when Bopanna-Paes beat Zimonjic-Bozoljac in a 5-setter (8-6 in the fifth). That was against a world-class pairing, and a really big win. With Mahesh as captain, two things are clear: Rohan will be in the team, and Leander will be out. That is ridiculous!
Yeah I remember that match - it was played in Bangalore if memory serves correctly.
Too bad we cant use this pair anymore - especially when Paes is still playing so well.

Shame on MB.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by Rajiv » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:19 am

Another risk looming is that if Rohan doesn't get his way, he may not give his 100% as we saw few years ago against Uzbekistan , a easy winnable match we ended up loosing when he partnered LP

On a side note , New Zealand have taken 1-0 lead over China ( Statham over Di Wu), and with doubles to follow surely the New Zealanders would go on the 3rd day 2-1 up , if not 3-0 , and if 2-1 up on the final day than anything can happen , so we could still be facing NZ at home instead of away match in China

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by sameerph » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:44 am

Rajiv wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:19 am
On a side note , New Zealand have taken 1-0 lead over China ( Statham over Di Wu), and with doubles to follow surely the New Zealanders would go on the 3rd day 2-1 up , if not 3-0 , and if 2-1 up on the final day than anything can happen , so we could still be facing NZ at home instead of away match in China
There is no third day here. They have converted zonal matches into a 2 day affair with both doubles and reverse singles to be completed tomorrow. Also have reduced the matches to best of 3 sets instead of best 5 sets. This is likely to cause a lot more upsets than usual. It should generally help our players to have shorter matches as fitness is usually an issue with them.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by Rajiv » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:14 am

Michael Venus takes the first set 7-5 against Ze Zhang. Go NZ !!!!!

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by PKBasu » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:45 am

Pretty amazing that NZ is doing so well against China in Tianjin! Davis Cup is different from normal pro tennis!

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by sameerph » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:28 am

Zhe Zhang comes back to win the next 2 sets and the match to level it 1-1.

But, this tie is very much alive. NZ are favourites in doubles. Then, they need to win one of the reverse singles which is possible.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by PKBasu » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:07 am

NZ are favourites in doubles, no doubt, but it will be upto Statham to beat Ze Zhang, because Venus is unlikely to be able to play singles and doubles on the same day.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by Rajiv » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:16 am

PKBasu wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:45 am
Davis Cup is different from normal pro tennis!
Sure it is ... as we have seen over the years and to justify that point , the Pakis are 1-0 against the mighty Koreans.
On any given day, in tournament play Soon Kwon would have taken out Querishi easily , but here they have taken a surprising 1-0 lead , with a carefully chosen Grass court and using all his experience took the first set and cleverly gave away the second set 6-1 to save his energy for the decider and won on the TB after being 2-5 down in TB, Smart Play from Querishi who thumped down 20 aces in his victory which more than power could be well placed and well angled on the Grass court for which the Korean had no answer.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by sameerph » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:12 am

Yes and having best of 3 sets matches is certainly helping players like Aisam. I don't think Aisam would have won in a 5 set match.
PKBasu wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:07 am
NZ are favourites in doubles, no doubt, but it will be upto Statham to beat Ze Zhang, because Venus is unlikely to be able to play singles and doubles on the same day.
Looks like Venus will have to play singles as their other 3 players are all without a singles ranking. Perhaps they will play Sitak and Daniell in doubles.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by sameerph » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:25 am

And Aqueel Khan beats Seong Chan Hong to give Pakis a 2-0 lead over Korea. It is amazing how they are able to win matches with a 38 year and a 37 year old, both unranked on tailored grass courts at Islamabad.

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