Davis Cup 2018 - India

This is a forum where users can follow various tournaments that have Indian participation or are held in India. GrandSlams and Davis Cup should also be discussed here.

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sameerph
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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by sameerph » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:28 am

We will get to know our opponents this weekend but most likely it will be against China in China.

With 5 men team now allowed to be selected, we will surely have 3 singles and 2 doubles players in the team. Yuki, RamK and Sumit should be certainties for the 3 singles spots.

But, looks like this time the debate will be on 2 doubles spots. Rohan and Divij are our top 2 doubles players but Leander is fast closing in on Divij for our #2 player. Also Leander and Purav play regularly together on tour. So, do we select our top 2 doubles players who have never played together or our #3 and #4 who are a regular pair on the tour ?

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by PKBasu » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:31 am

It is ridiculous to have Mahesh Bhupathi as DC captain while Leander Paes is still an active player.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by Rajiv » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:55 am

And the vital Doubles combination has to chosen based on Rohan's preferences , and as long as Mahesh is the captain Rohan's place would be permanently secured

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by sanjay8886 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:11 pm

I agree, it is all Mahesh. Otherwise based on ranking it should be everyone else but Rohan in the team. Infact Mahesh favors him so much that he continues to be highest Indian ranking in ATP for more than last two years. Mahesh also managed to get him to mixed doubles aus open final. Mahesh, you are really cunning. Let us kick him out and make Leander the captain and let him play until he is 60 years old.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by S_K_S » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:25 pm

sanjay8886 wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:11 pm
I agree, it is all Mahesh. Otherwise based on ranking it should be everyone else but Rohan in the team. Infact Mahesh favors him so much that he continues to be highest Indian ranking in ATP for more than last two years. Mahesh also managed to get him to mixed doubles aus open final. Mahesh, you are really cunning. Let us kick him out and make Leander the captain and let him play until he is 60 years old.
I dread opening the Davis Cup thread these days but thanks for making me laugh

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by bujilover » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:44 pm

sanjay8886 wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:11 pm
I agree, it is all Mahesh. Otherwise based on ranking it should be everyone else but Rohan in the team. Infact Mahesh favors him so much that he continues to be highest Indian ranking in ATP for more than last two years. Mahesh also managed to get him to mixed doubles aus open final. Mahesh, you are really cunning. Let us kick him out and make Leander the captain and let him play until he is 60 years old.
Loved it. :rofl:

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by prasen9 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:33 pm

Yawn. It does not matter. They are all about the same. What is mean is is there really a big difference between the different combinations we can choose? I think that from the information we have any reasonable combination will beat the weak teams but lose against the strong doubles teams and these sets of teams will not differ much from one combination to another. Or at least we cannot predict it a priori. So just choose whoever. Don't really care. We do not really have a good chance of getting to the world group unless Yuki and RamK are in form and injury-free and then if we get a good draw. Those will matter more than some doubles combinations made of whatever singles retreads we can find.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by arjun2761 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:53 pm

Actually, it does matter. At the WG playoff level, the chances of Yuki/RamK winning more than 2 matches is quite low on their current ranking and level of play. Of course, if one of them cracks the top 50, that would change the odds a bit.

Therefore, winning the doubles is critical for us to have a chance to advance to the world group. With 4 top 50 doubles players (and perhaps one or two others who may be as good such as Yuki), winning the doubles point is a far higher probability than for us to win even 2 singles matches. Agree with the view that we don't have a clear best team. However, that does not mean that the DC captain should not plan on putting forward the team that is best prepared and have the best chance. If Rohan is one of his choices (given his ranking and chemistry with the captain), then Rohan should play at least some events with his potential partners (say Divij or Saketh) to improve their combination and to prove their viability as a team.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by PKBasu » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:06 am

sanjay8886 wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:11 pm
I agree, it is all Mahesh. Otherwise based on ranking it should be everyone else but Rohan in the team. Infact Mahesh favors him so much that he continues to be highest Indian ranking in ATP for more than last two years. Mahesh also managed to get him to mixed doubles aus open final. Mahesh, you are really cunning. Let us kick him out and make Leander the captain and let him play until he is 60 years old.
Haha! Mixed Doubles isn't played at the Davis Cup.
In Men's Doubles, despite being seeded higher, Bopanna did no better at the last Slam (with a foreign partner) than the best all-Indian pair did. The only reason why Bopanna is picked as the first name on the sheet is because of his friendship with Bhupathi. If Bopanna was winning a lot, it would be a different matter. At the moment, there is no basis for picking him (in the absence of a working partnership with one of the other Indian players), since the new rules allow for 5-member teams -- implying that the team can have three singles players and the best possible pair of doubles players. If Bopanna is to be picked, he needs to find an Indian partner with whom he can play the Davis Cup (and demonstrate that the partnership works). Otherwise, there is no reason why he should be picked automatically (merely based on his individual doubles ranking, which is meaningless under the current format).

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by sanjay8886 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:25 pm

I totally agree again, it is all about friendship with Mahesh. World ranking of 20 ( the others players are nowhere close) means it is consolidated ranking based on multiple tournaments and not just one. And if that is consistent over the years, atleast ATP believes in different way or probably is also friend of Rohan. Thats what gets you better partner, qualifies you in higher level tourney. Getting into mxd doubles grandslam proves it that he can win with different partners as long as he has doubles skills. Above all there is not a single Indian double player who has steady Indian partner with whom they have set the stage on fire. Ofcourse, if that was the case, it would also reflect in ranking. We can't be biased in favor of Paes based on his past laurels for picking in Davis Cup. He can keep playing whatever professional tourneys he want, and get ranking better than Rohan. And then you can claim it is friendship of Mahesh. For me, it is performance and ATP ranking is a good measure of it. Do I want Rohan to play with other Indian players as steady doubles partner, ofcourse yes? Frankly, there is none at this time who is close and hence he will not like to loose on probability of winning tournaments by selecting weaker partners, thats how competitive professional world is.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by sameerph » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:11 pm

I agree with you, Sanjay. The ranking difference between Rohan and Leander ( 20 and 47) is too much to be ignored. If Leander improves his ranking to be just few places below Rohan by selection time, them it may make become a bit more reasonable to choose Leander based on his past exploits.

Yes, it would be best for the chosen pair - (Rohan with either Divij or Leander) be made to play a couple of tournaments before davis cup. But, that may not be necessary for the Asia Oceania group stage match. If we go thru to the world group play off then Mahesh should certainly persuade his good friend Rohan to play a couple of weeks with his chosen davis cup partner at that time.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by Rajiv » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:38 am

Highlighting Rohan's high ranking or the gap between him and rest is totally irrelevant from Davis Cup point of view.
If the same yard stick of rankings were to be applied , Leander and Ramesh who have had more stellar results compared to Rohan in Davis Cup would have never played with each other.

And it all boils down to a simple question what is the best options available to lock the doubles.
Can Rohan with a scratch pairing deliver the results or instead we rely on a pairing who have played together or look for an pairing which would naturally compliment each other like Ramesh & LP to get that vital Doubles point.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by prasen9 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:04 am

arjun2761 wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:53 pm
Actually, it does matter. At the WG playoff level, the chances of Yuki/RamK winning more than 2 matches is quite low on their current ranking and level of play. Of course, if one of them cracks the top 50, that would change the odds a bit.
Theoretically, it may. But you need Yuki/RamK to win even two matches. That I don't see happening.

But even if it is 2-2, I am talking about the team choice determining the doubles rubber. I think any random choice of the 4 will possibly do as well as the best thought-of choice because it is not clear which team will click. With any random choice, we will win against the weaker doubles teams and lose against an established top-20/30 type team. The same will happen with a carefully chosen doubles team.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by sameerph » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:55 am

I do not think so, Prasen. Take for instance our recent world group play off tie against Canada. We won 2 singles matches in that tie and doubles loss proved to be crucial. It was clear that the pair of Rohan and Purav lost a perfectly winnable match. The result of that match could have been different if we had a more carefully chosen team and a win in that match would have made a difference between a win and a loss in the tie as a whole.

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Re: Davis Cup 2018 - India

Post by PKBasu » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:35 pm

I agree with Arjun. It is important to recognise that the rules have now changed. Each team can have its best possible doubles pair, and STILL have 3 singles specialists (two to play and one as a substitute in case of injury).
So Rohan's individual doubles ranking is irrelevant, unless he can demonstrably become part of a strong doubles team that will do better than any of the other teams.
Currently, there is a regular pairing of two Indians that is playing successfully on the tour, and beat the world #5 pair at the Australian Open. That is the best demonstrated pair of Indian players.
There could be an alternative pair -- e.g., Yuki/Divij, which did the best among all-Indian pairs at the Maharashtra Open. The selectors need to decide whether Yuki/Divij is a wise choice (given that Yuki is likely to play two singles, and is prone to injury), whether Divij/Purav (a proven pair, albeit one that has now broken up) would be a better/safer alternative, whether Leander/Purav (the currently strongest pair) would be best, or whether Rohan can pair up with another Indian well. Blindly picking Rohan merely because of his individual doubles ranking makes absolutely no sense under the current rules (as opposed to the old rules, which only allowed each team to have four members). Other teams will pick specialist doubles teams, and we need to do the same. India, unlike other competitors, does have an abundance of good doubles choices.

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