$50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by vishalg » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:17 pm

sanjay5goel wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:42 pm
Why can't I find any recordings / highlights of any match (Pune or Bangalore challengers) on youtube?

Anyone has a link he can share?

Thanks
Hare Krishna!
You can go to the livestream website and search for ATP . They do keep recently ended matches.

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by Sin Hombre » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:54 pm

I am just surprised and annoyed by how meekly Yuki surrendered here. 6-4, 6-0 is a proper spanking.

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by jayakris » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:19 pm

arjun2761 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:20 pm
I am glad that Mahesh doesn't subscribe to this view. :D There is a common misconception especially among those who haven't played the game, that all singles players can play good doubles. In reality, it requires both a different skill set and a different game strategy/instinct to do well in doubles.
No you don't need to have played any tennis at all, to know it. We can see what the players do. You are talking to the guy who has taken a lot of excrement for 2 decades for supporting doubles, and have argued this point all along; so no need to count me in the group - and you are reaching to the choir. No, not all singles players can do it well. Many (most?) in the top-100 level can do it as well as a top 25 to 50 doubles specialist, which is all I was saying. They need to have played some good doubles at junior and early career levels, which many of them have done. Then instincts and talent comes in, if there is a little bit of familiarity with the partner.
Yes, many good singles players can make good doubles players if they choose to but not all. For example, among our singles players, I think only Yuki and Saketh likely have a good doubles skill set. I don't think Sumit, RamK, or Prajnesh will be particularly successful as doubles specialists.
Yuki was indeed the player I had in mind too. In fact I specifically said we should do this with Yuki, after the Canada tie. No need to preserve him for the third day if we have other top-150 quality singles players. Try to go up 2-1 with him and put the pressure on the other team to beat both our other singles players instead of us trying to win both reverse singles. That was what I was asking for, pretty much.

Till our double specialists (LP, Bops, Divij, Purav) win a doubles match against a top-15 quality Davis Cup team, I will keep saying it. We have not done that in quite a while. If we can't do it, we will not be sniffing world group for a while (at least not without 3 singles wins in a WG playoff, which we may actually do soon though).
Do agree with the part about the players playing together as a factor. An essential part of the doubles game strategy is the coordination on their movement on court of the goal of dominating the net which involves coordination in their movements and playing together certainly helps that. Doubles specialists are often much better than the singles players in their instincts in this aspect even when the raw skill set is similar. For example, if you see Hingis play doubles, you see that is a master of doubles positioning which is what makes as great as she is in doubles even when her raw skill set was declining.
Yes, but you are talking about a legend.Also, such a thing is a bit more important in women's doubles in the men's where pure skills, serve, athleticism etc also count for a good bit. Even on the men's side, some like LP are certainly like that and can be a force when playing with somebody who is familiar in playing with him, even now. Other doubles specialists less so, but if they have played with another singles guy, it can certainly work. My problem with doubles specialaists is not that they can't do the job, but that they are not available to play and get coordinated with others prior to important DC ties like a WG playoff. So, most of what I am saying is not to badmouth doubles players, but is to point out the impracticality of their being able to split from regular partners to play competitive doubles for India's sake, whereas unattached singles players of similar ranking ranges can do that with a nudge from the DC captain. Again, now that two doubles players are allowed, maybe it is best to go with the best doubles pair (even if it does not include the best doubles specialist on ranking).

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by knarayen » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:21 pm

jayakris wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:44 pm
Saniapower wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:19 pm
Yuki $ Sumit should play singles for India in the Davis Cup next time.
Not yet. But he needs to be brought along, and he needs to be used for doubles too. Get him to play some doubles also occasionally with or top three singles players whenever they are at some common events like challengers. We should drop the doubles specialist plan altogether, because doubles specialists won't play with the singles guys anywhere (as they will have regular partners, unlike Sumit who can do it every now and then to get used to playing with them). We should then send in our best 4 singles players - at this point Yuki, RamK, Saki and Sumit. If Saki remains injured, bring in a doubles specialist; otherwise that is my team, and it is a world group quality team.
My thinking exactly....Yuki, RamK, Saki and Sumit should be the D.C team moving forward. Hope Bhupathi and Bops are listening and seriously don't screw up this list - what an opportunity to build a solid D.C. Team! If Bhupathi screws this up I will descend on him and his dad big time!

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by jayakris » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:33 pm

Sin Hombre wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:54 pm
I am just surprised and annoyed by how meekly Yuki surrendered here. 6-4, 6-0 is a proper spanking.
Not sure if you saw the match, but he was actually playing quite fine. Yes, a 64 60 is a spanking, but Sumit was playing unreal tennis. The guy wasn't missing anything and hitting with tremendous velocity, accurately hitting the chalk all the time. It didn't look like Yuki was meekly surrendering. There were a lot of well-fought points but he was a little off in his accuracy at times. I don't know if that groin strain or something was affecting his accuracy but he didn't show any obvious discomfort. This is about two matches longer than he has gone without a retirement in successive weeks in 6+ years, but he was unlucky today with an opponent who was simply playing better than him. As simple as that.

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by knarayen » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:57 pm

Sumit definitely peaked against Yuki...solid as a rock, hitting the lines with NO errors.Sustaining this level in the final is difficult but not impossible. I'm excited by the prospect of Sumit winning his first Challenger title in this first appearance itself.

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by vishalg » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:40 pm

vishalg wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:17 pm
sanjay5goel wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:42 pm
Why can't I find any recordings / highlights of any match (Pune or Bangalore challengers) on youtube?

Anyone has a link he can share?

Thanks
Hare Krishna!
You can go to the livestream website and search for ATP . They do keep recently ended matches.
Exact link -- https://livestream.com/ATP/events/7949422

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by Sin Hombre » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:02 am

jayakris wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:33 pm
Sin Hombre wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:54 pm
I am just surprised and annoyed by how meekly Yuki surrendered here. 6-4, 6-0 is a proper spanking.
Not sure if you saw the match, but he was actually playing quite fine. Yes, a 64 60 is a spanking, but Sumit was playing unreal tennis. The guy wasn't missing anything and hitting with tremendous velocity, accurately hitting the chalk all the time. It didn't look like Yuki was meekly surrendering. There were a lot of well-fought points but he was a little off in his accuracy at times. I don't know if that groin strain or something was affecting his accuracy but he didn't show any obvious discomfort. This is about two matches longer than he has gone without a retirement in successive weeks in 6+ years, but he was unlucky today with an opponent who was simply playing better than him. As simple as that.
I did not watch the match though unless he had an injury which was affecting him, Yuki should not be getting bagelled. When was the last time this happened on hard?

Sumit's tendency to bagel or breadstick someone one week and then struggle against the same (or similar level) player the next week is quite intriguing as well.

He is not a ballbasher for this to happen so frequently.

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by sameerph » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:24 am

Yes, Yuki usually does not get baglled even against top 50 players on hard courts. I watched yesterday's match in only bits and pieces but I guess when Sumit gets into a zone it is difficult to win points and games against him. That is what one can gather based on the bagles handed out by him every now and then. He just keeps returning everything. So, I guess it was a bit of both - Yuki not at his best and Sumit at his best.

I hope Sumit is in a similar kind of zone today in the final.

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by jayakris » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:25 am

sameerph wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:24 am
So, I guess it was a bit of both - Yuki not at his best and Sumit at his best... I hope Sumit is in a similar kind of zone today in the final.
This was the case. Sumit was in an absolute zone in that 2nd set. It felt like he was hitting ground strokes like I have NEVER seen any Indian hit. He looked like Andre Agassi at times. If it wasn't Yuki, no other player at this challenger would win even 10 points in that second set other than on aces and service winners. It was only because Yuki is pretty damn good and was playing many points quite well, that he even got 17 points out of 47 in that second set. Like I said above, there was a point where Yuki simply applauded because there was nothing else he could do.

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by sameerph » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:23 pm

Bengaluru final started.

Not a good start for Sumit. Got broken in the first game itself after a couple of deuces and then Clarke held at 30 for 2-0.

Sumit gets on board with a hold at 15. Clarke serving at 2-1.

Clarke holds at 30 for 3-1. Sumit is missing a lot of shots today. He needs to get steady, seems nervous at the start.

Sumit holds at for 2-3. Clarke is attacking his serve and Sumit has served a couple of double faults too.

And Sumit breaks back at 15 with couple of good returns and a couple of errors from Jay. 3-3 with Sumit to serve.

Sumit holds at 30 for 4-3.

Sumit breaks again to take a 5-3 lead and has a chance to serve for the set. My livestream has gone down. :-(

Ok. It comes back and Sumit holds at love to take the first set 6-3. :D . What a superb forehand down the line at 30-0. After initial nervous start, Sumit has taken 5 straight games from 1-3 down.

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by jaydeep » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:43 pm

Terrific play from Sumit for winning the first set, 6-3 from ,2-3, break down.

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by S_K_S » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:44 pm

Wow that was a fantastic turn around. Clarke came out all guns blazing so it turn it around was an amazing effort.

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by PKBasu » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:48 pm

Wonderful comeback to take the first set!

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Re: $50K(+H) Pune/$100K(+H) Bengaluru Challengers Nov 13-26, 2017

Post by sameerph » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:50 pm

In the second set, 2 love holds to start with. Sumit served his first ace in that service game.

Sumit had a bp at 30-40 but couple of service winners by Clarke and one good point at the net makes it 2-1 for him.

Phew, Sumit saved 3 breakpoint - 1 at 30-40 and 2 more at ad-out to hold for 2-2.

Clarke holds at love for 3-2. Clarke is playing well now prepared to play out long rallies with Sumit and Sumit making a few more errors. He will need to be sharp to not allow Clarke to get back here.

Sumit holds at 15 for 3-3.

Clarke hold at 15 for 4-3. Clarke is not giving up. Sumit needs to focus more.

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