Davis Cup 2017 - India

[Omkara]

I apologise. I should have provided more clarity.

The toilet break saga comes from the commentators. They said Mahesh is an old cookie, knows all tricks of the trade. The break lasted exactly 10 minutes, too much of clock work precision. The commentators felt it was Mahesh's plan. The Canadian team would be eager to start set 5 and finish it and the break would irritate them a bit. If so it didn't work as Shapolapov later said that the break helped him rest and regroup and have a nice little chat with his coach. They changed strategy were he didn't attack during first few shots of the rally. That and not fitness, became reason for Yuki giving up the fifth set easily.

But most of this theory came from the commentators who were pro Canada. But it felt right.

[prasen9]

When I commented on this thread, I did not know who took the break. I was sure Canada took a break. I was very surprised that India took the break. I do not think Mahesh would be that stupid to ask Yuki to take a break when he is on a roll. You could always take a break within the set, I think if the need be to slow things down. I think Yuki really needed to go to the toilet. Human beings sometimes do need to go, I think. I have no access to any facts in this case, it is all what I think.

[Omkara]

I fully agree with what you say Prasen. Just 2 things that I find strange.

Clock work precision. It looked they knew when to get out of the locker room to comply with the 10 min rule. They didn't look like rushing back to court. On contrary quite comfortable in their demeanour while coming back.

If Yuki needed a break what was Mahesh and another fellow doing in the locker room

Anyway theories aside, I liked the way we played. Let's move on.

[prasen9]

If Yuki needed a break what was Mahesh and another fellow doing in the locker room

Wow! It gets better and better. Three****! Wow! So, my theory that they could not wait was correct, it seems And, you are saying we should move on?

[Omkara]

I said i liked the way they Played and we should move on

[prasen9]

Now, now, now. There surely must not have been a TV broadcast of how they played in the locker room. Since you said that you liked the way they played, implying you saw it, we now know who that "another fellow" in the locker room was

[sameerph]

Progress relative to when? I know he said wrt last year. And, yes, wrt last year it is real progress if you just care that the ranks have improved. I am not that excited by the quanta of the jump. I have grown up with Amritraj and Krishnan, then we had an under-100 Paes, a under-200 Bhupati, and the world's best doubles team, etc. From those days, we have regressed. And, not made any real progress on a collective basis. Progress relative to the dark days when Somdev was the only show in town? Perhaps. But, I am not that enthused by the 150-types which is what we have now, and, that is the main point I was trying to make (real progress or not). I understand that to go to top-100 from top-200, you need to go through 150. But, I don't have much hopes that these guys will make it and stay there consistently. I will be excited when someone gets into the top-100 and can hold on for a couple of years.

By your definition, Leander/ Mahesh era was no different. Leander could not hold on to top 100 position for more than a year. He went into top 100 in August 1998 after winning Newport title and went out of it in June 1999. He was in top 150 for a long time but not in top 100. Bhupathi never made it top 200, his career high ranking of 217.

Somdev held on top 100 for a longer time than Leander. He was there for the almost the whole of 2011 and also for 6-8 months period in 2013-14. Yuki was in top 200 or near it at around the same time that Somdev was in top 100. So, I would say this period of 2011-14 was no less than Leander-Mahesh era.

Leander fell out of top 200 in January 2001 and after that we had nobody in top 200 till Prakash Amritraj made it top 200 for a brief while in 2009 then Somdev shortly afterwards.

So, I would say today's situation where we have 2 players just outside top 150 is way better than 2000's and also at least at the same level as Leander-Mahesh in era late 90's.

It is a different thing if you are taking about Amritraj-Krishnan era in 1980's.

It is real progress in ATP singles as compared to anything since 30 years back. Probably you have more memories of doubles successes of Leander-Mahesh in 2000's and making comparison with that.

[Varma]

Since we are talking things in DC context, most of Leander's prime (singles) years have to factor in his ranking as top-30 or better. All "real" rankings go out for a toss when you put Leander and DC together.

- Varma

[jaydeep]

Mahesh's few more comments ..

Mahesh Bhupathi leaves door open for Leander Paes?

"Paes was dropped because Bopanna had a better ranking and we wanted someone who could play both singles and doubles to partner him. It wasn't such a political issue as it was made out to be. Paes just needs to improve his rankings. We don't play another Davis Cup tie till next year so a lot can happen by then."

[PKBasu]

As long as we're not picking the best team, we're not going to make the World Group.
To have picked Purav ahead of Leander was asinine. Interestingly, nobody asks the one question that should be asked: why was Purav picked for this tie out of the blue?
Mahesh is a politician through and through. He has nurtured some tennis talent (Sumit; perhaps Karman). But he is pursuing his own personal interests -- being an excellent businessman, unlike Leander. Neither RamK nor Yuki is a product of his nurturing. Rohan is definitely a groupie of his. But all this favouritism is going to stand in the way of putting together the best Davis Cup team for each tie. Given our limited talent pool, this is fatal to our chances. (Talking about Leander for the future -- the only additional item added to this article, from the version we've seen previously -- is pretty meaningless; he couldn't have been used in this must-win tie, but wasn't even considered; seven months from now, he will be approaching 45, and unlikely to be much use to the team...).

[VReddy]

Progress relative to when? I know he said wrt last year. And, yes, wrt last year it is real progress if you just care that the ranks have improved. I am not that excited by the quanta of the jump. I have grown up with Amritraj and Krishnan, then we had an under-100 Paes, a under-200 Bhupati, and the world's best doubles team, etc. From those days, we have regressed. And, not made any real progress on a collective basis. Progress relative to the dark days when Somdev was the only show in town? Perhaps. But, I am not that enthused by the 150-types which is what we have now, and, that is the main point I was trying to make (real progress or not). I understand that to go to top-100 from top-200, you need to go through 150. But, I don't have much hopes that these guys will make it and stay there consistently. I will be excited when someone gets into the top-100 and can hold on for a couple of years.

By your definition, Leander/ Mahesh era was no different. Leander could not hold on to top 100 position for more than a year. He went into top 100 in August 1998 after winning Newport title and went out of it in June 1999. He was in top 150 for a long time but not in top 100. Bhupathi never made it top 200, his career high ranking of 217.

Somdev held on top 100 for a longer time than Leander. He was there for the almost the whole of 2011 and also for 6-8 months period in 2013-14. Yuki was in top 200 or near it at around the same time that Somdev was in top 100. So, I would say this period of 2011-14 was no less than Leander-Mahesh era.

Leander fell out of top 200 in January 2001 and after that we had nobody in top 200 till Prakash Amritraj made it top 200 for a brief while in 2009 then Somdev shortly afterwards.

So, I would say today's situation where we have 2 players just outside top 150 is way better than 2000's and also at least at the same level as Leander-Mahesh in era late 90's.

It is a different thing if you are taking about Amritraj-Krishnan era in 1980's.

It is real progress in ATP singles as compared to anything since 30 years back. Probably you have more memories of doubles successes of Leander-Mahesh in 2000's and making comparison with that.

As Sameer summarized it well above. I was referring to the last 15 years or so since I have been watching Tennis. I had mentioned this to rajitghosh's comment about 2 pages back on this thread and didn't put in the effort to reference that again.

[prasen9]

Yes, the doubles plays an important part of my impression. I somehow thought Mahesh' career high was ~#185 or so. The other thing may be the LP Olympic medal, 4th place in doubles Olympics, DC heroics, beating Sampras, etc. Somdev won a Asian games singles and doubles gold, a couple of ATP finals, a few wins at the Grand Slams, etc. The current crop has no such heroics. That is why I guess I am not that excited about #150s. Maybe this sort of seems dry, numerical improvement. And, yes, I grew up with Amritraj-Krishnan and a Davis Cup finals! So, that always seems to be the initial yardstick to me. I can understand VReddy growing up with less and so this is progress to him. [As I have said, technically, it is progress from last year. I am not denying facts.]

[S_K_S]

As long as we're not picking the best team, we're not going to make the World Group.
To have picked Purav ahead of Leander was asinine.

Wasn't Leander in court (the judicial variety) and therefore wouldn't have been able to make it anyway?

[Atithee]

World group is a joke. We are even in the mix only because most big names hardly play Davis cup for their respective countries.

It is amusing how there are more or less same number of pages of discussion before and after about the team selection than matches during the tie.

Other than Ramkumar, we have nothing today to look forward to even in the future. Yuki is NEVER going to take us to the promised land despite the hype in this forum. All our doubles teams are mediocre at best. We are solidly not in the golden age of Indian tennis that is largely the emerging consensus in the forum. But, we are afflicted with "group speak" here as is the norm in most places. There are a few dissidents but their voices are usually drowned and they simply stop posting.

[sameerph]

Yes, the doubles plays an important part of my impression. I somehow thought Mahesh' career high was ~#185 or so. The other thing may be the LP Olympic medal, 4th place in doubles Olympics, DC heroics, beating Sampras, etc. Somdev won a Asian games singles and doubles gold, a couple of ATP finals, a few wins at the Grand Slams, etc. The current crop has no such heroics. That is why I guess I am not that excited about #150s. Maybe this sort of seems dry, numerical improvement. And, yes, I grew up with Amritraj-Krishnan and a Davis Cup finals! So, that always seems to be the initial yardstick to me. I can understand VReddy growing up with less and so this is progress to him. [As I have said, technically, it is progress from last year. I am not denying facts.]

I also grew up with Amrtiraj-Krishnan era, Prasen and the era of Leander's heroics in davis cup and olympics.
But, also lived in a dry period in 2000's when we longed for a first round win at challengers level and did not even have too many players even able to make it to challenger level. Indian mens singles tennis seemed completely dead in that period.
It revived with Somdev and is now in much better shape than that period.

Heroics for the current crop may be just starting. We had a couple of top 10 level wins in the last few years after a long long time- RamK over Thiem and Yuki over Monfils.