Do the Indian Tennis players do better than their ranking at home ?

[jai_in_canada]

Where in India is Newport, RI?

Well, Leander is Bengali. So, that should give you the answer. In West Bengal. Google Maps [Naya Bandar]

Hmm... you convinced me with the Google Maps inclusion, but before that my guess was Tamil Nadu given Vijay Amritraj's 3 wins and RamK making a final more recently. Then again it could be argued that Amritraj played according to his ranking, not above it.

Also, Newport, RI is a place where guys with "Ram" in their name seem to do better than their ranking might indicate - as in Rajeev Ram, Ramkumar Ramanathan (maybe rename the place to Ayodhya, RI - ok, ok, I don't want to open up a can of worms!). Ramanathan Krishnan didn't win cuz the tournament didn't exist in his time, but I'm sure he would have won if it had. Ramesh Krishnan didn't win there - but that's the exception every rule must have.

[rajitghosh]

Newport is also the place where Anand Amritraj beat a certain Johnny Mac and his nephew Prakash reached his only ATP final. Incidentally, Vijay won in 76, 80, 84 and in 88 he reached the semis- all Olympic years. Not sure if they gave him a wild card in 92. So Newport is more of a home event for Indians. Leander apart from winning it once made it to the semis on 2 other occassions. Indians have done better in this than the Indian Open (old and new put together)

[RohitG]

What explains the good runs Somdev, Yuki and Prajnesh had at Indian Wells/Miami? All 3 had different playing styles.

[prasen9]

What explains the good runs Somdev, Yuki and Prajnesh had at Indian Wells/Miami? All 3 had different playing styles.

Their English is not that good. So, they thought that Indian Wells actually means Indians do well. That is, they thought wells is sort of a verb meaning doing well. So they did well. For example, "a bird calls" means a bird calls, "indian wells" means an Indian wells (does well). Remember we Indians do not always use articles and often miss them.

Wrt Miami, the confusion was in the name. Mi - they thought means me (remember their English is not good, so shaky spelling). Somdev is Bangali (okay Tripuri but Bangla is his mother tongue). So, "ami" means I. So, he thought it was his place aka home. The others thought Mi-am-I means I am me, i.e., the place where I can be me aka home. That means this is their homeland too.

It's all in the mind. Surface, playing style does not matter. If you believe you are at home, comfortable, and ready to take on anyone, then half the game is won. The other half is decided on court.

That is the explanation. Now, if the moderators want to ban me for this self-proclaimed brilliant piece of explanation, I can always point to Jay and say he started this. And, JIC is back. So, we must all sharpen our best game here.

[prasen9]

(maybe rename the place to Ayodhya, RI - ok, ok, I don't want to open up a can of worms!).

Yes, melikes. Let us try to get an "island" nation of Ram Rajya in Newport, RI sort of like Lesotho or Swaziland. If they could do it, we can too. Where are the Bajrang Dal folks when we need them here? Or as they do in the U.S., we can try to say it is a sovereign "Indian nation" reservation, and point to some idiotic thing Columbus said about this being India as the definitive proof of an Indian claim.

And before you ask, I did not smoke anything today. Just naturally high. JIC got my (creative) juices flowing, as they say, much to the chagrin of the rest of the readers here.

[jai_in_canada]

(maybe rename the place to Ayodhya, RI - ok, ok, I don't want to open up a can of worms!).

Yes, melikes. Let us try to get an "island" nation of Ram Rajya in Newport, RI sort of like Lesotho or Swaziland. If they could do it, we can too. Where are the Bajrang Dal folks when we need them here? Or as they do in the U.S., we can try to say it is a sovereign "Indian nation" reservation, and point to some idiotic thing Columbus said about this being India as the definitive proof of an Indian claim.

And before you ask, I did not smoke anything today. Just naturally high. JIC got my (creative) juices flowing, as they say, much to the chagrin of the rest of the readers here.

Hahah!! I love it, prasen!!! That's got to be the all time best analysis that I have read!! How you seamlessly weaved Indian Wells, Miami and Newport (how about Indianapolis?)!! And effortlessly rolling in Columbus and his idiotic claim when there were no.spices or tea in sight!! Then on top of that claiming Somdev and Leander to be Bengali - which I totally agree with (seeing Bengali in diversity)! And "justifying" Ram Rajya in Newport.

Made me lol - almost even rofl! Especially when you started out with "Their English is not that good..."

This is why I love this forum! A sanctuary of intelligent, good natured, broad-minded, informed, humorous, sometimes borderline insane/genius analyses in the war zone of the Internet. Long may it remain so!

P. S. A reliable family historian claims that the name Amritraj used to be Ramitraj. So there.

[jai_in_canada]

Hey, so after all this, what have we learned about Indians doing better at home than their rankings would indicate?

[rajitghosh]

Amazing that both Somdev and Leander have such strong musical/ poetry connection. Somdev is related to 2 of India's greatest music directors- Sachin and Rahul Dev Burman and Leander is descended from Michael Madhusudan Dutta who achieved so much in his short life. I hope now Bangladesh doesn't start claiming Leander as their own since Michael was originally from Jessore.

[jai_in_canada]

Amazing that both Somdev and Leander have such strong musical/ poetry connection. Somdev is related to 2 of India's greatest music directors- Sachin and Rahul Dev Burman and Leander is descended from Michael Madhusudan Dutta who achieved so much in his short life. I hope now Bangladesh doesn't start claiming Leander as their own since Michael was originally from Jessore.

Interesting insights, Rajit. And your earlier analysis regarding performances of Indians in Newport in reaching the later rounds made good points.

We start somewhere and learn so much as we meander in the stream of consciousness called Sports-India forum.

[jai_in_canada]

There are even more examples. Like Leander's. His win over Federer was at INDIAN Wells, and against Sampras was at INDIANapolis.

I see that Jai in Canada’s return has rubbed off on you. Nice one, Jay in Irvine!

There's no vaccine against the JIC virus. Masks and anti-social distancing also don't work.

P.S. I guess there's no doubt about where this pundemic started!

[PKBasu]

Well, Leander is Bengali. So, that should give you the answer. In West Bengal. Google Maps [Naya Bandar]

Naya Bandar notwithstanding, Leander is indeed part Bengali -- descended on his mother's side from the great Bengali poet Michael Madhusudhan Datta. Michael of course had married an Englishwoman, so by definition his progeny would be Anglo-Indians. On his father's side, Vece Paes is of Portuguese descent (from the surname) but undoubtedly with a lot of Bengali blood mixed in over the generations. The Portuguese had a big presence in Bengal (particularly in the port of Chittagong).

Michael Madhusudan married a Frenchwoman Henrietta, not an Englishwoman. So Leander has French blood in him.

Michael's first wife was Rebecca Thomson McTavish, who he always referred to as an Englishwoman. She had Scottish blood (from the surname) but also some English blood (indicated by the middle name). Apparently she also may have had some Indian blood. In those days "Anglo-Indian" was the term used for English people (or, more broadly, Britons) living in India. People of mixed-blood were called Eurasians -- and only came to be called "Anglo-Indians" around the mid-1920s.

In 1856, Michael abandoned Rebecca and their four children (only two of whom were to survive Rebecca) in Madras, and moved to Calcutta, where he began a relationship with Henrietta (full name Emelia Henrietta Sophie White), who was said to be of "French extraction". I suspect she had some French blood, but the name suggests she too had a lot of British blood. As Michael had never formally divorced Rebecca, he wasn't married to Henrietta, but they had 4 children too (of whom I was still-born). Leander (via his mother Jennifer) may be descended from Henrietta, but Michael was said to be the first Indian to have married a European woman (Rebecca). He effectively created the first Anglo-Indian family fathered by an Indian (via the 5 children who outlived the parents). The typical Eurasians of that era were children (usually illegitimate) of British fathers and their Indian (female) paramours.

No matter which of Michael's partners (wife or lover) Jennifer is descended from, she belongs to a pioneering Anglo-Bengali family. Leander's father Vece Paes is an Indian of distant Portuguese descent. The Portuguese inter-married with locals wherever they went (unlike the Brits, whose women in particular tried hard to maintain their racial separation from locals), so people with Portuguese names are multi-hued outside Portugal -- and sometimes even in Portugal (the current PM of Portugal is the son of a Goan). The Atlanta Olympic bronze medal match was played by two people with Portuguese names, but representing Brazil and India.

[PKBasu]

Michael Madhusudhan Dutt's son by Henrietta (possibly Jennifer Paes' ancestor -- grandfather?) took the surname "Dutton", since Michael himself had been disinherited by the Dutt family once he converted to Christianity. (I presume that was the only way he could have gained acceptability among other Eurasians, since it was unknown for a Eurasian -- later called Anglo-Indian -- to have an Indian surname). In later periods, members of the Bengali elite did manage to convert to Christianity without such consequences -- most famously several of WC Bonnerjee's children.

[Omkara]

Michael failed to gain acceptance in Britain because he was an Indian. He thought him converting to Christianity will be good enough to win a ticket to the literary elite in England. But that wasn't to be. He came back and became on of the finest Bengali poets. Slightly less known than Tagore or Sarat. He was difficult to read but he had very strong opinions. Loved his writing.

[prasen9]

Sarat Chandra was not a poet. I know you know that. Perhaps you meant Bangali authors. The #2 classic Bengali poet perhaps is Kazi Nazrul.

Hoping that a kind moderator will perhaps move all this to the Leander thread at least and then we can figure out to sub-excise things if things go more out of hand.

[rajitghosh]

If you only look at poetry Michael was probably better than Tagore. He unfortunately died before he turned 50 so his body of work is less compared to Tagore. His style of blank verse was something very unique. Understanding his poems is more difficult than Tagore's po
ems.Tagore of course was more versatile writing songs, novels, short stories, plays and so on.