General Tennis Discussions

General Discussion on Indian Tennis - Forums for TennisIndia.org

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 34954
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 5 times
Contact:

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by jayakris »

Haha, China at the top of their game! They set up a "junior tennis challenger" (whatever that is!) and brought some kids in. That is where they had Shuai sign autographs. There is nobody else around in that whole place, as you can see. Beijing has no other tennis pros or anybody who would be at that event. But Peng Shuai, who had not announced a schedule or anything before, is there as some sort of a show piece. Of course, it is not staged by China. No questions! All is fine and dandy out there.
Prominent teenager tennis final match kicks off in Beijing (Global Times, China's propaganda newspaper)
The Fila Kids Junior Tennis Challenger Finals for students 10 and 12 years old, a high-end teenager tennis match in China, kicked off at National Tennis Center in Beijing on Sunday... Following the weekly competition on November 7, when the championships and silver medal winners for male and female's singles match came out, the final competition was played at the diamond court.
Whatever that means. There was a competition that finished 2 weeks ago, but they asked them to play the championship again? Haha. So easy to fool the world.

And that second video at supposedly a restaurant even mentions "tomorrow is Nov 21st" and all that. That is just natural conversation. No mention of the international media going berserk about her. She is not even aware of it, I guess. Hilarious. :)

The fix is in! Done and dusted. Case closed.
User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 34954
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 5 times
Contact:

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by jayakris »

^^^ But the above may be enough for the FILAs (who obviously played along with the staged event, as their logo is there!)... Similarly, others like WTA may just choose to act like they believed what China says, and move on. But the world is not stupid. More and more people are aware that China is not what China acted like they were, for two decades since the late 90s. It is not a place that people will freely deal with anymore. Don't underestimate it. Truth ultimately prevails, and communists will need to learn the hard way, yet again!
User avatar
Atithee
Member
Member
Posts: 5901
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:14 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by Atithee »

User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19240
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by prasen9 »

arjun2761 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:20 am Jay, I think you have a good read on how this will play out. Shuai Peng will survive this because of international pressure but she knows that there will be serious consequences to both her and her family if she continues to publicly embarrass the party (CCP).

With respect to the ivory tower rant against the US judiciary, most of us understand that there are human and political biases in all human run systems. The US judicial system has its biases but is actually fairer than most other judicial systems. In China, it isn't a question of bias, it is a question of power. If a judge in a Chinese court displeases the CCP, he will disappear just as soon quickly as Peng and of course no one will know or care about him. In every state, the top admin and judicial official know that they serve at the mercy of the local CCP chief....
Well, any uninformed can say whatever they want I suppose on the internet. Either basic reading ability has gone down so much that they cannot really understand simple English or are intentionally making up straw-men. The U.S. system is perhaps fairer than most other judicial systems but is less fair than many other judicial systems. In the U.S. it is a question of bias *and* a question of white power too. The white establishment and the elite control the judicial system. It has always been. Whatever the people who live in the fantasy world of American Exceptionalism may think and say. There are many ways to skin a cat.

It is, of course, futile to debate with the ill-informed. But, still. No, not every local chief these days can do whatever they want and get away. China has improved their judicial system to become fairer. Is the Chinese system fairer than the U.S. system? Not at this point. Is the U.S. system (#27 in the world by one reputable survey and ranking) fairer than that in the Uruguay? Again, not at this point. Is China's progress rather slow? Yes, that is also true. All that is irrelevant.

My point is that China has been improving their judicial system in the last decade. Is it still better than India's at this point? No. But, it is better than about half the world's systems. And, better than India's in many aspects. Their system is better wrt corruption, wrt order and security, wrt civil and criminal justice than India's. For example, the ex secret police boss was captured recently. There are many such instances in the last decade where the so called "local chief" and even higher ups have been prosecuted. So being a partyman is not longer an absolute get-out-of-jail-free card these days. Of course, subtleties are difficult for people who cannot think and want to go ra-ra about American exceptionalism and rant here. I know there is not much one can do to argue with people who live in a make-believe world and make up their own stuff.

Xin Jinpeng has tried to crack down and has made some progress in tackling corruption. For those who are inquisitive and can read, the following is an excellent article China catching the "tigers" now. That was my point. I know a few are singularly un-inquisitive and biased and no amount of evidence will change their views.

Anyway, getting back to Shuai. As I said, nothing will happen to this guy because he is "too high". China has been cleaning up things at the lower level and they know they have to if they want to be an efficient economy. But, that has been rather slow and certainly has not reached the levels of this guy (who abused Shuai).
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19240
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by prasen9 »

jayakris wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:44 pm ^^^ But the above may be enough for the FILAs (who obviously played along with the staged event, as their logo is there!)... Similarly, others like WTA may just choose to act like they believed what China says, and move on. But the world is not stupid. More and more people are aware that China is not what China acted like they were, for two decades since the late 90s. It is not a place that people will freely deal with anymore. Don't underestimate it. Truth ultimately prevails, and communists will need to learn the hard way, yet again!
Jay, I am not so sure. People have known that China is autocratic. Yet, the world keeps dealing with them. It is not like the world did not know about this the last 30 years or maybe the last 70 years. Money talks. I have been to Africa several times in the last 5-7 years. Country after country has infrastructure projects bankrolled by China and constructed by Chinese companies, etc. I think just like the world did wrt our nuclear detonations, people will make some noise and then move on. China will lay low for some time. Maybe just not do anything. What they did is that they took her out of the limelight to make people suspect the worst. Then they will show that the worst is not going on. People will be happy and the outrage goes down. They will even forget after a time. But, the Chinese establishment will not do anything against this top politician. He is no local chief, who are sometimes prosecuted. Not even the so-called "tigers" that Xi Jinpeng wants to catch. He is too high to touch. Pretty strategic on their part. Make the situation worst, get everyone alarmed, then ease off. Their main goal will still be achieved in that they will have to take no action against the abuser. Peng may even be allowed to move around freely and participate overseas, etc.
User avatar
Atithee
Member
Member
Posts: 5901
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:14 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by Atithee »

Not sure how clean Peng is in all this—a point that is rarely discussed anywhere. She was in a consensual “relationship” with this guy for many years and is calling out one instance. Of course, it may be true and needs to be acknowledged and dealt with, but the whole allegation makes one wonder if there is more to the matter than out in the open. The entire thing seems orchestrated to me. Peng really had nothing to gain from it at this point when she herself says she has no proof of what happened. She also knew what would happen if she posted what she did and it just doesn’t make sense that she’ll risk everything like this. But, anything is possible.
User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 34954
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 5 times
Contact:

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by jayakris »

Meanwhile, China "produced" Shuai, as expected, for a 30 minute teleconference with the IOC President, Mr. Bach. They even provided her great "support" with a translator (as though she needs help in speaking English, after so many years on the WTA tour), and even the top official from the Chinese Olympic committee was there with her. Oh boy, how precious China considers the woman is, huh?

China got IOC to release nice pictures of him in front of a big screen TV and camera with her, and Mr. Bach even put out a statement that she thanked everybody for the concern and that she appeared relaxed. She just wanted everybody to "respect her privacy" and has even agreed to have dinner with Mr. Bach when he gets to Beijing in January before Winter the Olympics. Mr. Bach seems to be so happy to have found out for the world that a retired tennis player is not dead. She is so free that he worries that we might try to walk into her bathroom ("respecting her privacy" is his concern). How great!

Such beautiful scenes of camaraderie, friendship, international love, Olympic spirit, and so on... Wish I had a few fewer brain cells, so I could cry tears of joy!

--- Mr. Back did not even mention the deleted Weibo post in those 30 minutes of chitchat, and didn't really get to why he was even having a nice long chat with a retired tennis player. The bastard (nothing less) should be ashamed of himself! But bastards never are.
User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 34954
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 5 times
Contact:

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by jayakris »

prasen9 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:58 pmJay, I am not so sure. People have known that China is autocratic. Yet, the world keeps dealing with them. It is not like the world did not know about this the last 30 years or maybe the last 70 years. Money talks.
But things have changed and the world has learned a lot more from the last few years than you think. The world did get fooled for a while, because China was indeed quite straight and friendly for a very long time. Heck, even China themselves got fooled!... I think they were experimenting how far they could push it with free-market-like capitalism within their system. That their system was not breaking for 20+ years, surprised even China. Once the economic boom started to crumble a bit (you saw the ghost town stories and about the problems from salary increases for labor, etc, right?) and companies like Alibaba seemed to be getting too big for the communist party to handle, they had to decide to shut down that plan.

The world has seen how things changed in the last few years. There will be repercussions. How it will all go, remains to be seen though. You are right that money talks. They still have a lot of money clout. But we will see how far that goes. Things will certainly be different from now on. How different? How fast will the changes come about? I don't know.
User avatar
arjun2761
Member
Member
Posts: 7381
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:26 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: US
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by arjun2761 »

prasen9 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:53 pm
arjun2761 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:20 am Jay, I think you have a good read on how this will play out. Shuai Peng will survive this because of international pressure but she knows that there will be serious consequences to both her and her family if she continues to publicly embarrass the party (CCP).

With respect to the ivory tower rant against the US judiciary, most of us understand that there are human and political biases in all human run systems. The US judicial system has its biases but is actually fairer than most other judicial systems. In China, it isn't a question of bias, it is a question of power. If a judge in a Chinese court displeases the CCP, he will disappear just as soon quickly as Peng and of course no one will know or care about him. In every state, the top admin and judicial official know that they serve at the mercy of the local CCP chief....
Well, any uninformed can say whatever they want I suppose on the internet. Either basic reading ability has gone down so much that they cannot really understand simple English or are intentionally making up straw-men. The U.S. system is perhaps fairer than most other judicial systems but is less fair than many other judicial systems. In the U.S. it is a question of bias *and* a question of white power too. The white establishment and the elite control the judicial system. It has always been. Whatever the people who live in the fantasy world of American Exceptionalism may think and say. There are many ways to skin a cat.

It is, of course, futile to debate with the ill-informed. But, still. No, not every local chief these days can do whatever they want and get away. China has improved their judicial system to become fairer. Is the Chinese system fairer than the U.S. system? Not at this point. Is the U.S. system (#27 in the world by one reputable survey and ranking) fairer than that in the Uruguay? Again, not at this point. Is China's progress rather slow? Yes, that is also true. All that is irrelevant.

My point is that China has been improving their judicial system in the last decade. Is it still better than India's at this point? No. But, it is better than about half the world's systems. And, better than India's in many aspects. Their system is better wrt corruption, wrt order and security, wrt civil and criminal justice than India's. For example, the ex secret police boss was captured recently. There are many such instances in the last decade where the so called "local chief" and even higher ups have been prosecuted. So being a partyman is not longer an absolute get-out-of-jail-free card these days. Of course, subtleties are difficult for people who cannot think and want to go ra-ra about American exceptionalism and rant here. I know there is not much one can do to argue with people who live in a make-believe world and make up their own stuff.

Xin Jinpeng has tried to crack down and has made some progress in tackling corruption. For those who are inquisitive and can read, the following is an excellent article China catching the "tigers" now. That was my point. I know a few are singularly un-inquisitive and biased and no amount of evidence will change their views.

Sorry, Prasen your post about China shows that you have no knowledge about how China works. The CCP is boss in every aspect of Chinese life. What you are calling corruption purge is really political battles within the CCP in which the less favored in the CCP are being removed by those with more power. At the very top, Xi Xinpeng is using the corruption campaign to remove all his potential rivals and so on down the line. The US or Indian equivalent would be Trump or Modi imprisoning folks in their own party who they see as their potential rivals and those that form their power bases (as CN of course does not have any other party, so no chance to imprison the Democrats or Congress).

His favored folks are just as corrupt as before (and perhaps more so). Bottom line, that a regular citizen will never get any justice against government action unless someone higher up in the CCP wants it happen. CCP essentially hires and fires everyone in the government hierarchy including the judiciary.

If you are comparing petty corruption versus India, I agree that China is less corrupt on the streets than India. But certainly not when compared to the US.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19240
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by prasen9 »

Arjun, I do not disagree with most of what you said except the part where you said that all cleaning up of corruption is against people who have fallen out of favor. I am not saying that the communist party bosses do not pull strings everywhere. Please do not put words in my mouth or misinterpret. What I am saying is their immunity is not as bullet-proof as it was before. That has happened and has been happening for ages. Maybe Xi Jinpeng has increased that. However, the protection to the local bosses is not absolute as that it was a decade or more ago. In essence, Xi has created apart from an "enemies" class, a class of "don't-cares" or "don't-care-as-much" class, which was not there before. And, it also depends upon the crime. If a petty boss commits a heinous crime, they do not have absolute immunity anymore. In essence, the party wants some cleaning up now and do not want the fallout of supporting the most egregious. Also, the local bosses know that they can steal here and there but unless they have very good connections with the top bosses, they will not get absolute protection always. This uncertainty has made them a bit cautious --- is what I am saying.

I have about 10 or so Ph.D. students who graduated from China and maybe half of them who have returned back. I have taught two courses in China and interacted with umpteen number of students. Attended many conferences. Yes, the communist party has its eyes and ears in the class I am teaching and sometimes it is easy to figure out who it is. However in my private communications in my hotel room, etc., people I have trust have told me that they have seen some improvement at the lower levels. Maybe they don't know much about China too. :-)

On overall corruption, both India and the U.S. are better than China. I am not stupid enough to deny that. India and China are maybe close and the U.S. is significantly better but not perhaps as good as some of the Scandinavian countries. I am not claiming that they are better than us or about at least a 100 countries in the world. All I am saying is that China has improved at the lower levels. That is what I have heard from people I know and trust and who live there. Are they saying this because of nationalistic pride? Maybe. But, these same people complained bitterly to me in the past.

If I am ill-informed, then I am ill-informed. I am going by what I heard and going by international reporting. That is all I can go by. I do not live there. If you have articles that say that Chinese low-level system has not improved, then please share. If there is evidence, I do not mind changing my views. That is what scientists do.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19240
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by prasen9 »

I found this China's Judicial Reforms that came out last week Arjun. In some sense, it confirms both of what we were saying. The CCP and Xi Jinpeng has centralized controls and is not really interested in reforms as much he is about power. And, that the upshot of this is that local bosses have had to clean up their act to some extent. Not all such actions are against his political opponents.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19240
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by prasen9 »

Changing topics.

My heart goes out to Tsitsipas who will now suffer the ignominy of being incontinent on court now that the ATP has limited breaks to three minutes. Hope he does not cause more of a stink on court now.

It will also be fun to see whether Djokovic and Tsitsipas take the vaccine or sit out the Aussie Open. Tsitsipas has said in the past that he will take it if required. Australia will require the vaccine to get in. Good on you Aussies. Keep the morons out.
User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 34954
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 5 times
Contact:

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by jayakris »

prasen9 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:54 amMy heart goes out to Tsitsipas who will now suffer the ignominy of being incontinent on court now that the ATP has limited breaks to three minutes. Hope he does not cause more of a stink on court now.
Haha. Classic :)
User avatar
Atithee
Member
Member
Posts: 5901
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:14 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by Atithee »

What a hard hitting article!

The IOC’s Treatment of Missing Chinese Tennis Star Peng Shuai Is Disturbingly On-Brand
Corbin Smith
Mon, November 29, 2021, 3:46 AM PST


https://www.yahoo.com/news/ioc-treatmen ... 06146.html
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19240
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: General Tennis Discussions

Post by prasen9 »

Hard hitting? It is trying to praise the WTA while acknowledging that they may not be doing enough either. The bottom-line may be that nobody can really do anything. The WTA, IOC, etc. want the Chinese money (audience). So, at the end, all of this is crocodile tears. Some shed it (WTA). Some don't (IOC). If the WTA, etc. implement a real boycott of China for a prolonged period, say 1 year, then I will believe they are any better than the IOC.

On a different note, why do you think Shuai would come out with this now? She is no idiot. She knows how China operates especially since she has travelled widely and talked to people from different countries so that at least some of her nationalistic blinders are off. According to her calculations, is it that she believes China will not do anything serious to her while not do anything to the rapist either? If she does not believe that she will not be in trouble, she would not have come out with this statement is my thinking.

There is a small chance that she reached a psychological breaking point and had to come out with this for some semblance of mental peace. But, it does not seem like that is the case.

Comments? Thoughts?
Post Reply