General Tennis Discussions

[PKBasu]

We followed Fazaluddin for several years here. He made it to 396 in singles and 243 in doubles: not too bad at the time, when there were very few Indians on the pro circuit other than Leander and Mahesh. Fazal won a Futures title in India in 1998 (beating Jonathan Erlich -- later a top-10 doubles player, who made a singles high of 292 in 1999), and later beat Danai Udomchoke (who was to become a top-50 singles player) later in the year.

[prasen9]

An injured player who plays and cannot complete risks losing his or her prize money by being fined. The money for a 1st round loser is 50-60k I believe. Half of that is a lot of money for the people at the #120 range. And perhaps even for anyone outside top 25-50. They have been fining people a part of their match fees. Fines

[PKBasu]

Sugita pulled out against Tomic today, with the score reading 6-3, 1-6, 1-4. Interesting test here: will he lose all his prize money?

[arjun2761]

The fact that he won the first set suggests that he was fit enough to play. Perhaps, he picked up or aggravated a niggle during the match and that should not be fined...

[prasen9]

The irony is delicious. Tomic, who has been fined in the past because he does not put in his best and tanks, is now on the other side.

[jai_in_canada]

Now we have competition for the Greatest Loser Of All Time! Speaking of delicious irony, that acronym is GLOAT!!

P.S. On second thoughts, that's not fair to Sugita. He might have well gotten injured during the match - given that he won the first set. I haven't heard of any Japanese players being tankers. They all seem to be serious, professional, polite fellows in keeping with their culture. Still I am leaving the comment in because I like the acronym that I came up with.

[jayakris]

Now we have competition for the Greatest Loser Of All Time! Speaking of delicious irony, that acronym is GLOAT!!

Then GOAT and GLOAT will both be inappropriate for what they stand for!

[Atithee]

An article on reduced paychecks in tennis and its impact on tennis players:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/01/spor ... money.html

And one on the life of a lowly ranked tennis player amd realities of the professional tour:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this- ... 2020-01-07

[prasen9]

Why do the tournament directors do this? What will happen if they make the payments a bit more equal? Will the stars not come? What is the market-driver here?

[jai_in_canada]

Why do the tournament directors do this? What will happen if they make the payments a bit more equal? Will the stars not come? What is the market-driver here?

Players are disgruntled. That is why the PTPA is formed. I think that there's a feeling among men's players in the 25-100 ranks that they are getting short changed in the biggest tournaments (which are combined ATP & WTA) because of equal prize money for the women. Not sure if factually the women's matches draws in less revenue (gate, tv, streaming) to justify this feeling.

On the cost side of things, players need to wise up. Lower the fixed salary they pay to coaches/physio/fitness/hitting partners. Include a prize money sharing system. That way the team has a vested interest in getting to the later rounds. It is not a sustainable business model to have unpredictable top line revenue and fixed costs. Even in the best of times this will cause cash flow problems.

[prasen9]

Yes, but, you also have to look at the market. Why would a coach/physio travel for less pay than what they could earn in residence?

[jai_in_canada]

Yes, but, you also have to look at the market. Why would a coach/physio travel for less pay than what they could earn in residence?

You assume that they would earn less if the compensation moved to a fixed+variable model? They might earn even more some years and less other years. They just share in the risk and reward. That would keep the team together through good and bad years - which are bound to occur. Under the current pay structure the player takes all the risks, if the player goes bankrupt paying their team more than they make then said coach/physio would go back to in residence anyway - or switch to another player. Even now the market determines that the higher earning players can afford better coaches/physios/fitness trainers anyway. If I were a player I would want my support team to want to share not only in the upside reward but also in the downside risk. If they cared about my success I believe they would be ok with that. That's a good business partnership. Question is - are support staff partners or employees? Right now they seem to be employees. Tennis players are each small businesse which can have wildly different years financially even without a pandemic - determined by injury, confidence, new competition etc.

[arjun2761]

I really doubt if they are employees. At best, they are contractors contracting with one client. In many cases, they actually contract with multiple players over the course of a year and some also have other baseline activities that they continue to do.

[jai_in_canada]

Good points, Arjun. Made me see the point Prasen was making earlier. If indeed the demand for good coaches/physios/fitness trainers is higher than supply then most players will not have much leverage in negotiating payment terms with them. So yes the market will drive that and players just have to go into being professionals with their eyes open and hope that they can turn a profit each year by staying healthy and winning matches.

[suresh]

An article on Sandesh Kurale who recently won the U18 National championship beating Manas Dhamne. His father runs a tea stall!

An awe-inspiring tale of a national jr tennis champion, who makes it count

h/t ITD on FB.