ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Varma » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:10 pm

S_K_S wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:57 am
As the tournament gets into the serious stage I have to blame Murray for ruining it for us fans. If he had withdrawn before the draw we would have had a Fed vs Nadal final and a more evenly balanced draw rather than the lopsided one we are seeing.
Yes! Just can't tell you how frustrated I felt watching week2 unfolding. It's a shame that only one of Federer/Nadal/Delpo can make it to the final. Having said that, I am not sure how fit Delpo is to challenge Federer tomorrow. Looks like he is totally worn out. Yesterday he was pondering over retiring after being 2 sets down. He said he only continued by feeding off of typical Flushing Meadows' crowd support. I really hope that he recovers in time to give us a good match tomorrow...or give Fedex a run for his money, at least. Even though the bottom half had sprung quite a few surprises (thanks to a depleted field), I will be surprised if Querry doesn't make it to the finals.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by jaydeep » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:22 pm

Varma wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:10 pm
Even though the bottom half had sprung quite a few surprises (thanks to a depleted field), I will be surprised if Querry doesn't make it to the finals.
Considering the way this US Open is going, I would not be surprised to see Argentine Diego Schwartzman in the final. :kookoo:

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Varma » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:35 pm

I would love to see that happen, Jaydeep. It will give a big boost to a lot of kids who are good at Tennis, but aren't as tall. We need more variety in the game.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Varma » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:36 pm

:Offtopic: PKB & Atithee...Thanks for all that info and tidbits!

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by S_K_S » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:31 pm

Varma wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:35 pm
I would love to see that happen, Jaydeep. It will give a big boost to a lot of kids who are good at Tennis, but aren't as tall. We need more variety in the game.

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Forget the kids, they can still get taller. I hope he wins the match for all fellow adult shorties.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Varma » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:04 pm

@Samarth...I know a few kids who are immensely talented but have parents that are very short (5.3" or so). When they get to 12-14 age group, it is not uncommon for them to face peers that are almost a foot taller. They get frustrated and believe that they will never be as good as the taller kids, and often conclude that they have no future because of their lack of height. I want them to look up to these guys and believe that they have future in pro tennis. Just a few years back, we had Oliver Rochus - who was barely 5'5" - make it to the top 25. I have a lot of respect for these guys for their self-belief and rock-solid will to fight against the high odds stacked against them.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by prasen9 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:30 pm

S_K_S wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:31 pm
Forget the kids, they can still get taller. I hope he wins the match for all fellow adult shorties.
There you go! Always rely on Samarth to point out the stark realities of life :-) Yes, I am rooting for the little guy to win the USO. Why stop at the finals?

I was blaming stupid Murray too, but, maybe he really thought he could be ready. As you saw with Federer, even if your body is not ready in Day 1, if you can hang on, it comes to shape and flourishes when you have guaranteed rest days in the latter part of the tournament.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Varma » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:55 pm

Schwartzman is gone, unfortunately :(. Carreno Busta is the first man to reach QFs at a major by beating 4 qualifiers! Now he is the semis.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by arjun2761 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 pm

Of course, Shapovalov (live ranking of 51 and rising fast) is probably better than the majority of the players in the main draw.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by prasen9 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:42 pm

So is Sasha Zverev. But, they lost their matches. And, unfortunately, 1 loss is what you get. I would actually like a double elimination tournament or some sort of Swiss system tournament. That would protect people from the misery of having one bad day. And, if we played the Swiss, we would have Nadal-Federer, Federer-Sasha, etc. matches, i.e., a lot more marquee matchups which would be great for the spectators.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Prashant » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:01 pm

prasen9 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:42 pm
I would actually like a double elimination tournament or some sort of Swiss system tournament.
That would be fairer indeed, but it would have to be at the cost of halving the draw size if you want to keep the number of matches about the same. Which means some of these guys like Shapovalov wouldn't have made the tournament.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by prasen9 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:35 pm

Which is why I suggested Swiss. How many courts do they have? I suspect you would have to reduce the number of players in this case too.

But, are you sure that double elimination would require us to half the number of players? I am too lazy to do the math now. Double elimination means that if there are n players, each player loses twice and one player loses 0 or 1 time. So, that is (n-1)*2+1=2n-1 matches at max because in each match there must be one loser. So, with 128 players, we have 255 matches. In the current format, we have 64+32+ ... ok, I guess you have 128 -1 matches. So, indeed the number of matches doubles up. Basically, I could have simplified my life by counting the total losses in both cases :-) You are smart :-)

Shapalov did not win anyway. I would be fine starting with 64 players and playing double elimination. Only 2 wildcards. No special exempts.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Prashant » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:02 am

In a Swiss league the potential for ties would be very high. Perhaps a small mini tourney at the end for the ones tied at the highest score, whatever that was.

While I understand these approaches maybe infeasible at a GS, I don't see why they aren't adopted at the season-ending tournament where there are just 8 players. Surely a double elimination there makes sense, 14-15 matches over the week, lots of pressure on the guys with one loss etc.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by prasen9 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:40 am

Because sports administrators are a) bound by tradition, and b) are idiots. I find the scoring system of tennis idiotic. And, I am not the only one.

The Swiss system has tie-breakers, e.g., using the ELO ratings of the opponents one player has faced, points earned by the opposition faced, etc. I think it produces reasonable answers. However, the potential for great TV would be fantastic, since most of the top players would be playing one another with huge stakes. I wonder why some enterprising business man has not done that.

If you have 8 players, you can simply run a round-robin league and crown the player with the highest number of points. But, of course, the organizers want winner-take-all matches, which is asinine imho after 1-2 weeks of matches!

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by rajitghosh » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:49 am

Incidentally the professional Grand Slams in the olden days had round robins. But they did not have 128 player draws. I guess for large draws elimination works best. The amateur Slams in the same era had elimination only.

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