ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

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Saniapower
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Saniapower »

Good decision from Federer to skip the clay season altogether. At this stage of his career it makes no sense for him to play every week and particularly play on clay. He has already won FO once. So he doesn't need to prove anything to anybody anymore. People who understand tennis know very well that Federer is the greatest player of all time. He can take some rest now spend time with family and friends and come back strongly with full determination when the grass court season starts. No need to invite any sort of injury by unnecessarily playing on that particular surface. Roger Federer has proved many times that he has been the 2nd best player(behind Nadal) on earth on his least favorite surface aslo.
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by prasen9 »

He does not need to play every week. He could play one warm-up tournament and do well. He does not need to prove anything to anyone. Nor does anyone else for that matter. But, we don't know whether Federer has it in him to win multiple French Opens. He perhaps thinks he does not --- or at least he does not without bearing a cost that he does not want to bear. People who know tennis have actually questioned whether Federer is the GOAT. See Pat Cash. Or maybe we should believe that he does not really know what game he played professionally. On the other hand, people who think that Federer is the 2nd best clay courter after Nadal most certainly do not know tennis.

I actually like Federer sometimes but not his sycophants. Somehow he has managed to gather the most rabid ones.
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Varma »

From the #NextGen I really thought Sasha Zverev will make it big this year. Considering how many a party he gatecrashed last year, this year thus far as been a forgettable one for him. Yes, we are still in March, and yes, he is still 20. Yet, things are not going right for him. I think he needs a good sports psychologist. His Tennis is ready for a major but his mind seems to be not. If he gets it sorted out, he can be a big threat to Federer at Wimbledon.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Prashant »

prasen9 wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:06 amOn the other hand, people who think that Federer is the 2nd best clay courter after Nadal most certainly do not know tennis.
Do you mean second best ever? Or second best just during the Federer - Nadal era? I think that Federer was the second best clay courter behind Nadal for several years, about 5 seasons if I remember right. But a very distant second. I don't think he was the second best clay courter ever by a country mile.

But if you confine yourself to just the years when Nadal won the FO, who would you say was a better clay courter than Federer? Djokovic wasn't good for long enough. And there really aren't other candidates.
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by PKBasu »

Of the NextGen players, Hyeon Chung remains the stand-out, but simply never gets the credit he deserves -- as the white press keeps playing up Sasha Zverev, Dimitrov, Rublev (thrashed twice by Chung at Milan in the NextGen championship last season) and other great white hopes.
Chung just crushed Mmoh 1 and 1 yesterday, underlining his credentials once more.
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by prasen9 »

Prashant wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:03 am
prasen9 wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:06 amOn the other hand, people who think that Federer is the 2nd best clay courter after Nadal most certainly do not know tennis.
Do you mean second best ever? Or second best just during the Federer - Nadal era? I think that Federer was the second best clay courter behind Nadal for several years, about 5 seasons if I remember right. But a very distant second. I don't think he was the second best clay courter ever by a country mile.

But if you confine yourself to just the years when Nadal won the FO, who would you say was a better clay courter than Federer? Djokovic wasn't good for long enough. And there really aren't other candidates.
I was responding to SaniaPower. From what he wrote, he did not qualify to Federer being the 2nd best clay courter after Nadal during x/y years. He just said that apart from Nadal, Federer has been the second best clay courter. I was responding under the interpretation that after Nadal, there is Fed on clay all-time.

Djokovic's has a career index of 0.8 on clay. Federer is 0.759. If Djokovic wasn't good enough for long enough with a win-loss of 188-47, then Federer has not been good enough for long enough either with a win-loss of 214-68. I would say 188-47 is a better record than 214-68 unless you are super-fixated on longevity and not that much on quality. Clay Index Nadal is of course is on another zone in clay. 389-35.
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by prasen9 »

Just to clarify, I find Chung quite impressive. I am just not that great a fan of his style. I respect his achievements. Similarly, I respect Dimitrov but am not a big fan. I like watching Sasha and Thiem more. Just individual likes (often not consistently rational either).

Supposedly, Nadal is back on the court practising. We'll see if his body holds up.
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Prashant »

prasen9 wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:28 am was responding to SaniaPower. From what he wrote, he did not qualify to Federer being the 2nd best clay courter after Nadal during x/y years. He just said that apart from Nadal, Federer has been the second best clay courter. I was responding under the interpretation that after Nadal, there is Fed on clay all-time.
In the Federer-Nadal-Djokovic years, I'd take Federer over Djokovic on clay by a hair based on the combo of win-loss & longevity. But yours is a fair argument. There is no other candidate though - so Federer is at worst the third best clay courter of that era.

All time clay courters - I think Borg gives Nadal a run for his money, and in any analysis they are top two in some order. But even there, after racking my brain, Federer is no worse than 5 or 6. He would come behind Lendl & maybe Wilander. Kuerten & Courier were very good for less than 3 years each, and Vilas was good for longer, but with worse stats. I'd take Federer over any of them. Who else? [Caveat: confining myself to the Open Era, i.e. mid sixties onwards].
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by prasen9 »

I could buy the longevity argument if Djokovic does not go longer than Federer after Federer retires. But using that logic, Vilas, Nastase and Muster leap ahead of Federer.

Guillermo Vilas (659-152), Jimmy Connors (201-58), Ilie Nastase (339-97), Thomas Muster (422-127) have had "longer" (or about the same for Connors) clay court records than Federer and had a better win/loss record on clay. Each had one a French Open title. If you don't need the title, then Clerc, Orantes, and Carlsson have had better records on clay.
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by jai_in_canada »

In Miami no Federer, no Nadal, no Murray, no Djokovic, no Wawrinka... Is it going to be Delpo vs Cilic? Delpo vs Next-gen (Chung)? Next-gen (Chung) vs Next-gen (Zverev)? Is this a changing of the guard? Or just a lull before the Big 5 storm back? Is this Delpo's chance to capture a couple of majors before the Big 5 come back to life? Men's tennis is in an intriguing situation.
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by sameerph »

Second quarter of the draw now consists of all youngsters- 18 year old Shapavalov against 21 year old Coric and the winner will meet the winner of the match between 20 year old Zverev and 22 year old Kyrgios. 1 semi finalists from these 4 guaranteed.

Also 21 year old Chung remains and 20 year old Tiafoe waiting to finish his R3 match against Berdych at 5-4 in third set.

It does seems like a long time that so many players under 22 have made the last 16 of a major tournament. Can one of them go all the way to the title ?
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by S_K_S »

jai_in_canada wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:54 ambefore the Big 5 come back to life?
I don't think the big 5 are coming back in the near future. The realist in me wants to type "or perhaps ever" after that sentence but the fan in me can't say it. The only player I am confident will return is Nadal. Djokovic is in serious trouble, Murray has a long way to go and there is a big question mark as to whether he will ever get back to the level he was at. Stan is working away but with no positive signs at the moment.
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by prasen9 »

The only one who is fit now is Federer :-)

The top seeds left are Zverev and Del Potro.
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by jai_in_canada »

K. Anderson vs. P. Carreno Busta
A. Zverev vs. B. Coric
J.M. Del Potro vs. M. Raonic
J. Isner vs. H Chung

5 out of the 8 quarterfinalists are over 6'5".
But only 3 out of the 8 can be considered NextGen.
I see Chung, Delpo, Coric, Anderson in the semis.
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by PKBasu »

DelPo is the dominant player at the moment. Anderson has had a great half-year, but has lost all 4-5 finals he has played during that period. Coric doing well for the second consecutive tournament, but Chung is the standout among the NextGen. Sasha has struggled in the really big tournaments (particularly the Slams).
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