WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by prasen9 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:25 pm

Barty vs. Vondrousova in the Finals.



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by Omkara » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:37 am

prasen9 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:25 pm
Barty vs. Vondrousova in the Finals.
Today we say who are they? A year down the line we will again say who were they?



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by prasen9 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:36 pm

There is only one name. Serena Williams.



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by prasen9 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:21 pm

Hmm, well. Today it is Andreescu. Like we said, a year later will tell us if they are the real deal. Will there be an Andreescu-Osaka rivalry?



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by jai_in_canada » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:05 pm

prasen9 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:36 pm
There is only one name. Serena Williams.
Isn't that two names, Prasen?! :p
Sorry for your hero's loss today. Well, not really. But it's the Canadian thing to apologize. Like Bianca did after winning. This country is going bonkers over Bianca. And rightly so. First Canadian to win a singles GS title. And she's my hometown girl. So incredibly proud of her. Love her game. Love her personality. No BS, no nonsense. All power, energy, guts, poise, strength and intelligence. Love how down-to-Earth her parents are. Great credit to her parents and the team! Credit to Tennis Canada. Andreescu, Raonic, Shapo, Alliasime... and, yes, Bouchard (they can't help that she can't manage herself well), Leylah Fernandez, and there are a couple more. Sumit Nagal trained here too. Toronto went crazy when the Raptors won the NBA tittle but there was very little Canadian content in the team (the head coach). Bianca, though, is a Canadian product. Born here, developed her game here (despite a few years in Romania). So Canada can be rightly proud and happy. I am.



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by prasen9 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:26 am

I am not a big Serena fan per se. So, no need to apologize. Congratulations to Bianca. In fact, it is good to see more players achieve their dream of a GS.

I do think that Serena is the all-time greatest. A much clearer case than Federer's. One can say that is because she has not had a worthy opponent. Sharapova flattered to deceive. But that is not her fault. I think age has just taken something off so that she could not manage the last hurdle in the last four tries. Kind of like Federer. He is still great. But, maybe that small thing is missing so that he is finding it harder to string together 7 wins or whatever it takes to win a GS.



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by jai_in_canada » Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:49 am

prasen9 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:26 am

I do think that Serena is the all-time greatest. A much clearer case than Federer's. One can say that is because she has not had a worthy opponent. ...
If the criteria for determining the Tennis GOAT is lack of worthy opponents (a.k.a dominance) in the respective silo of competition then Serena does not even come close to being the GOAT. That honour goes to Esther Vergeer.



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by Atithee » Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:41 am

There is only one GOAT among the GOATs. And, that’s Don Bradman. Maybe, Dhyanchand is another one. Tiger Woods seemed to be on that path, but he has unraveled quickly. I’d no idea about Esther but that is some dominance indeed.



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by prasen9 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:50 pm

jai_in_canada wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:49 am
If the criteria for determining the Tennis GOAT is lack of worthy opponents (a.k.a dominance) in the respective silo of competition then Serena does not even come close to being the GOAT. That honour goes to Esther Vergeer.
I was not saying that she did not have any opponent. Around 15 of them are still playing (women who have won GS tournaments) and then you have people who retired. But, apart from Venus and Sharapova, there were no consistent players. My vote goes to Serena.



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by jai_in_canada » Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:58 pm

prasen9 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:50 pm
... My vote goes to Serena.
Of course, it does. You can't back down now in the face of reason, can you?! :p :devil:
Just kidding. You're of course entitled to your opinion.
Nevertheless, this whole GOAT discussion is pointless, futile and inconsequential. It's not that people can't agree on *who* is the GOAT, they can't even agree on the *criteria* ... with *themselves*, let alone others. Almost always it's based on a feeling, with an attempt at rationalization coming *after* they have decided for themselves who is the GOAT.

Personally, for me, there are no GOATs. Only sheep, squirrels, chickens, pigs, cows, crows, gold fish, and my favorite, iguanas! :D



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by prasen9 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:24 pm

True. Blame our memory. We try to reduce everything down to one number. That is why we write summaries. Create indexes for development. Etc. It is indeed a subjective feeling. I feel that Serena is the best women's player I have ever seen play. I also feel that perhaps Federer is the best but I am not sure because of his record. I am perfectly happy to have the sheep, oxen, and goats: Djokovic, Nadal, and Federer (not correspondingly). And, then we try to come up with criteria that fit our perceptions. Agree completely on that.



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by jai_in_canada » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:14 pm

I started out being a big fan of Serena Williams – because I like to see Davids taking down Goliaths. To see an African-American, from Compton, coached by her non-tennis father, who was not an academy production-line item, who was not from a wealthy family, doing well in a white sport, whose establishment didn’t really roll out the welcome mat was heartening for me. And especially after the racist abuse that she took in Indian Wells. It was great to see Serena knock down so many tall barriers and keep achieving great things – to the point where she became an icon of a sport that really wanted to see tall blondes representing it. It annoyed me when Dick Enberg and Mary Carillo would openly support Sharapova in their commentary. It still rankles me when Sharapova is compared to Williams, or spoken of as a rival, or to see Sharapova make so much more in endorsements. So apart from Serena’s game, to me she’s a great one for the path that she took, the barriers she broke, the abuse that she tolerated, and the accomplishments she achieved. It was not an easy path, although Althea Gibson and Arthur Ashe probably had it even harder. But compared to Margaret Court, BJK, Roger Federer, Nadal and even Martina Navratilova, Serena Williams walked a hard path – and achieved as much if not more. I have huge respect for Djokovic for the path that he’s had to walk.

So I think the path one takes counts as much as the destinations one has reached. It is harder to get to London from a small African village than it is from Liverpool. Who achieved more?

At some point Serena stopped being the underdog. She became the Goliath. What’s more she started touting her own greatness, appointed herself as a social justice warrior, and bullied line judges and chair umpires. Justified as it might have been I found it to be in poor taste. I like Davids, but I also like Goliaths to be humble. That’s when I started cheering for her opponents. And yesterday I really wanted to see Bianca Andreescu vanquish Serena. Many reasons for it – but primarily it’s because I wanted to see David defeat Goliath in Goliath’s backyard with Goliath’s family loudly baying for blood. It was so sweet to witness the take down in that gladiatorial arena.



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by Sin Hombre » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:44 am

Serena has been a bit repulsive in her behaviour for a while. She was at it again refusing to give credit to the teenager who comfortably outplayed her, but also saying Kerber only won at Wimbledon since she is a mother. Add the constant pandering from her and the likes of ESPN "greatest tennis player ever" and throwing a fit if someone only called her "greatest female tennis player".

Also easy to contrast her reaction from last set to Nadal's on a 5th set time violation today.

Venus has always been easier to root for.



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by Atithee » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:00 am

Venus and Serena have traded places. Early in their careers, Venus behaved like the Serena of today.



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Re: WTA Tour/Non-India Fed Cup

Post by sameerph » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:10 am

Scenerio on WTA tour is so much different from ATP tour. In 12 grand slams since 2017, we have had 10 champions with only Osaka and Halep managing to get more than 1 grand slam title within that time. In the same period, in men only 3 players ( all time greats Federer, Nadal and Djokovic) have got all the titles between them- 5 to Nadal, 4 to Djokovic and 3 to Federer. Such a domination these 3 are having on the ATP tour since last 10-15 years.



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