ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by PKBasu » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:04 pm

Sin Hombre wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:44 am
Nadal's decline in 5-setters is quite intriguing especially him "choking" away BPs in the 5th set

Before 2015 USO: 17-5 (77%)
Since 2015 USO: 3-7 (30%)

This has cost him 2 GS now and almost certainly any hopes of surpassing Federer in GS count.
Arguably, Federer choked in both finals against Nadal at Wimbledon. And Federer choked against Cilic in the USO SF.
Nadal didn't choke against DelPo, but seemed to against Federer at the AO last year, and against Djokovic in the SF at Wimbledon this year. Perhaps it is just the quality of the opposition that appears to result in a "choke", or psychological block at key moments.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by prasen9 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:28 pm

Or perhaps this is a small sample size to draw any meaningful conclusion. When two players are about the same on that day, things happen.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by S_K_S » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:26 am

Challengers got a serious well overdue upgrade - https://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/at ... ant-revamp

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by PKBasu » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:21 pm

Good upgrade, with larger draw sizes a big positive -- plus slightly more prize money, and hospitality for all main draw players (good). But it seems to suggest that qualifying will be confined to four players, of whom two will make it in (if true, this is a strange change, implying that there is less of a ladder from lower reaches to the Challenger level).

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Prashant » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:49 pm

PKBasu wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:21 pm
seems to suggest that qualifying will be confined to four players, of whom two will make it in
That is exactly how I read it, and it is strange indeed. Has to be a mistake?

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by meyyis » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:25 am

Also what will happen to the Futures? Wont there be any points awarded for the Futures tournaments? The article seems to imply, that Challengers will be the first entry point for players to earn points, there by reducing the number of playing who are ATP ranked in 2019.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Sin Hombre » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:34 am

How are players supposed to transition from age level or national tournaments to professional tennis now?

Great for China with 10+ CH a year but Indian players are massively screwed here.

At least make it such that there are 8 qualifiers and some of those qualifying spots are allocated off itf u18 rankings.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by bujilover » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:50 am

meyyis wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:25 am
Also what will happen to the Futures? Wont there be any points awarded for the Futures tournaments? The article seems to imply, that Challengers will be the first entry point for players to earn points, there by reducing the number of playing who are ATP ranked in 2019.
Transition tour.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by sameerph » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:38 am

Sin Hombre wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:34 am
How are players supposed to transition from age level or national tournaments to professional tennis now?

Great for China with 10+ CH a year but Indian players are massively screwed here.

At least make it such that there are 8 qualifiers and some of those qualifying spots are allocated off itf u18 rankings.
As Dinesh said, there will be transition tour ( similar to futures ) where only ITF ranking points will be allocated.

ITF has posted that 4 best ITF ranked players will get entry into ATP challenger main draws and next 3 best ITF ranked players will get entry into challenger qualifying draws.

I think under 18 players also has some direct entry spots reserved in transition tour tournaments.

So, there is opportunity for budding players. Only think I fear is with so much increase in prize money the number of challengers will reduce. As it is in India we are struggling to host challengers. With the increase in Prize money, there is a chance that remaining challengers too will disappear from Indian circuit.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by jaydeep » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:19 pm

sameerph wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:38 am
Only think I fear is with so much increase in prize money the number of challengers will reduce. As it is in India we are struggling to host challengers. With the increase in Prize money, there is a chance that remaining challengers too will disappear from Indian circuit.
You are right Sameer ... MSLTA is already saying that it will be difficult for them to conduct Pune challenger from 2019 due to increase cost.
But Bangalore and TNTA are willing to organize with increased cost.

India may lose Pune Challenger in wake of ATP Challenger Tour revamp
"We are already a hosting a lot of tournaments on the ITF circuit for both men and women. We are also hosting the ATP World Tour event Maharashtra Open and one WTA event. Now if we have to provide accommodation to 16 extra players, we have to rethink about hosting it in 2019," MSLTA secretary general Sunder Iyer said.
"The prize money will go up to $ 60,000 and the ATP will provide a subsidy of $10,000 but it looks difficult to raise more money. It will also be not good to ask government for for funds since they are already supporting two big tournaments," Iyer said.

MSLTA, the most active state association in the country, spent $850,000K (approx 6 crore INR) last year to conduct all the tournaments, including the Maharashtra Open.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by kujo » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:02 am

Nice changes to Challenger level tournaments. But getting rid of the ATP ranking points for ITF futures level is a terrible idea. Looks like having 4 spots in the challenger qualifier would be the choking (entry) point for professional tennis - in addition to a few top ranked ITF players getting to play in a challenger directly.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by PKBasu » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:12 am

The basic idea is to widen the pool of professionals who can actually make a career out of tennis. Challenger level players will now be able to make a (barely) viable living from tennis.
The main challenge with this will be to create a proper on-ramp for outsiders to transition into the Challenger level.

What India will need to do is ensure that at least 5-6 Challengers are held in India each year.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by prasen9 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:28 pm

kujo wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:02 am
Nice changes to Challenger level tournaments. But getting rid of the ATP ranking points for ITF futures level is a terrible idea. Looks like having 4 spots in the challenger qualifier would be the choking (entry) point for professional tennis - in addition to a few top ranked ITF players getting to play in a challenger directly.
This will enshrine a first division and a second division of tennis players. Only a handful will be able to get "promoted" and a handful "relegated" in a month or a quarter.

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by kujo » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:00 pm

There are some details that are missing, which would clarify the issues better.

For example, what skill level players should be "admitted" into challengers? out of the 48 ATP ranked players - If an ITF player has to be able to beat the bottom ranked 25% (12 players) in order to earn ATP points - then that is reasonable. But, if they have to beat the top 12 - then we have a problem.... i.e) the stepping stone is too high.!

1. When two ITF players qualify into a challenger, will they face the seeded players or any random player? If qualifiers always meet one of the seeds, then we have a problem.

2. When you play the first round of a challenger as a ITF qualifier - will you get ATP points even if you lose?

If you don't get ATP points and if you always face a seeded player, then you are forever stuck in the qualifying loop until you can beat one of the top seeds!! i.e) the stepping stone is too high.!

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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by Sin Hombre » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:37 am

Tsitsipas with 2 fantastic wins in a row against Thiem and Djokovic. Up next is Sasha Zverev.

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