Golf contest format

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Which format do you guys prefer

Poll runs till Sat Jul 09, 2044 9:23 am

Money format
1
14%
Atithee's point format
6
86%
 
Total votes: 7

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Kumar
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Golf contest format

Post by Kumar » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:41 pm

Please vote and also put your two cents in this thread. My vote is for points format



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suresh
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Re: Golf contest format

Post by suresh » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:31 am

I voted for the points format -- it is fun to see points added every day.



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Re: Golf contest format

Post by Atithee » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:06 am

I have been thinking about a scoring format which would somehow account for the "handicap" of players vis-a-vis Tiger Woods.  Here is one example I am thinking of.  Please let me know what you think.

This is a score that two recent contestants would have got after two rounds that could result in a max of 40 points (using the current scoring system).  The Expected Score is calculated based on the WGR points ratio of top player to that player.

NameWGR PtsExpected PtsActual PtsReal Pts

Baddeley159.4534.7632-2.8
Leaney50.2223.373612.6
Ogilvy302.1237.2418-19.2
Pampling140.8334.0734-0.1
Senden133.3233.746-27.7
Total-37.2
Chopra89.6930.690-30.7
Durant133.3533.7430-3.7
Furyk442.3938.11 8-30.1
O’Hern184.4835.47 32-3.5
Petterson158.5934.7432-2.7
Total-70.8

Woods834.9640.0038-2.0

Woods' score is for reference.  The big ding here is that Woods can't score any positive points in this format as long as he is #1.
Last edited by Atithee on Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Golf contest format

Post by kujo » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:26 am

Atithee wrote:
This is a score that two recent contestants would have got after two rounds that could result in a max of 40 points (using the current scoring system).  The Expected Score is calculated based on the WGR points ratio of top player to that player.

NameWGR PtsExpected PtsActual PtsReal Pts

Baddeley159.4534.7632-2.8Woods834.9640.0038-2.0

Woods' score is for reference.  The big ding here is that Woods can't score any positive points in this format as long as he is #1.
But, isn't the ratio here: 0.191 (159.45/834.96)? And hence the expected points should be 7.64 (.191*40) and not 34.76?  I am confused as to how you got 34.76.

I really think, that you want to handicap contestants (which is a good idea) from picking an obvious / dominant player like Tiger. If I pick Tiger, the best he can do is to get me zero points. If I pick anyone else, there is a good chance that this person might get me some positive points (by playing above expectations). Within a week or two, contestants will realise that there is no point (pun intended) in picking Tiger. Effectively, the new format would eliminate Tiger from all future picks!!  :)

Two draw backs on suggested format:
1. This format will add more work when computing the final points - WGR points change every week and hence your excel table will have to change as well.
2. As a contestant, I would not know what my points are, during the day's play. Unless of course, I run through an excel table and figure it all out. Whereas, with existing points format, you can approximately guess what your player's points are going to be, by a cursory look at the leader board.

Also, what do you have in mind for the final standings on day 4? Bonus points for top -3 finishers are awarded or not?!

I would advocate for the KISS principle. Keep It Simple. This seems a bit complicated.... :)


cheers,
-kujo

Edit: added extra stuff
Last edited by kujo on Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Golf contest format

Post by Kumar » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:08 pm

I would recommend a Tiger rule, which can really make it simple. Restrict the number of times you can pick Tiger. Once we do that, Tiger is not going to be picked by everyone every week. This introduces a very intersting dynamic as to where do you think Tiger will win. Chances are that different members willl pick Tiger at different times.



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Re: Golf contest format

Post by Atithee » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:08 pm

I agree about KISS and you're right Kujo that this is far from simple and will take the fun out.  FYI, I tried various ways to calculate the handicap and I arrived at 40 - (834.96/159.45) = 34.76 as the best way which could actually be total crap!

As to Kumar, yes, your idea is simple.  Another thought could be that if you pick Tiger, you can pick only four players.  Or, if you don't pick Tiger, you get an extra pick.

After more thought, perhaps we are fine as it is and let Tiger be Tiger and his fans enjoy his dominance in fantasy golf contests.



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Re: Golf contest format

Post by BSharma » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:55 pm

Atithee,

You have done a fantastic work with the golf contest and what amazes me more is that you are continually thinking of making it better.  :D  By trying to make the golf contest more complex, you are ensuring that you and only you will be able to run in for the rest of the year and onwards.



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Re: Golf contest format

Post by kujo » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:23 pm

BSharma wrote: Atithee,

You have done a fantastic work with the golf contest and what amazes me more is that you are continually thinking of making it better.   :D  By trying to make the golf contest more complex, you are ensuring that you and only you will be able to run in for the rest of the year and onwards.
Agree with Doc on this!

However you forgot one thing Bhushan, our guest is actually trying conspire , make some complex calculations, so that he can win the contests rest of the year as well!!  :devil:


-kujo



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Re: Golf contest format

Post by Atithee » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:17 pm

kujoku wrote:
BSharma wrote: Atithee,

You have done a fantastic work with the golf contest and what amazes me more is that you are continually thinking of making it better.   :D  By trying to make the golf contest more complex, you are ensuring that you and only you will be able to run in for the rest of the year and onwards.
Agree with Doc on this!

However you forgot one thing Bhushan, our guest is actually trying conspire , make some complex calculations, so that he can win the contests rest of the year as well!!  :devil:


-kujo

I don't need to get this complicated to win.  I already have a winning formula - Go for Aussies whatever sport they play!  Actually, for this week, I almost went with an all Swedish team!  Alas!, they have only five players to choose from and I didn't bother checking if they'd even fit our restrictions.  If it were a beauty contest, you can bet that I'd have picked the Swedish bikini team  :D

Edit: Yes, I could have picked an all Swedish team.  It would have meant no players from the red list though.
Last edited by Atithee on Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Golf contest format

Post by Atithee » Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:22 am

BSharma wrote: Atithee,

You have done a fantastic work with the golf contest and what amazes me more is that you are continually thinking of making it better.   :D  By trying to make the golf contest more complex, you are ensuring that you and only you will be able to run in for the rest of the year and onwards.
I appreciate your nice words, Bhushan.  This reminds me - I will be traveling for ~2 months starting mid-May and will not be able to participate in the contests, let alone scoring it.  We need a volunteer to take it over.  Even after my travel, I will be busy transitioning into a new role but it is possible that I could score the contest again.  If anyone wants my spreadsheet which still has a bit of manual work, let me know.  I nominate Kujo to take over.



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Re: Golf contest format

Post by Kumar » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:11 pm

I have thought of a different way to enter picks for missing contestants,

In this method, if a contestant forgot to enter his picks for tournament, his picks will be automatically selected based on their ranking for previous week and players ranking. If any of the players WD before start of tournament, there will be no  alternates allowed. Also each of this contestants will start with -10 points (penalty for not entering their picks for that week).

The contestants picks will be based on their previous weeks performance. And the order will be reversed for next player they select.

For example, we had Ajay, Suresh, PKB and Sandeep not entering their picks for last week. Ajay and PKB finished 7th and 8th week before. Suresh and Sandeep didn't enter the picks .

Based on their previous week performance, following is their Ranking
1) Suresh
2) Sandeep
3) PKB
4) AJAY

Atithee wrote: Pick a maximum of two from each of the red and black colored lists AND a minimum of one from the green colored list below:

19 David Toms
35 Chris DiMarco
43 Joe Durant
46 Steve Stricker
51 Lucas Glover
55 Boo Weekley
56 Mark Calcavecchia
61 Shaun Micheel
73 Heath Slocum
74 J.B. Holmes
81 Sean O'Hair
83 Fred Funk
87 Ryan Moore
90 Bo Van Pelt
91 Troy Matteson
93 Nathan Green
94 Andrew Buckle
96 Bubba Watson
98 Rocco Mediate

101 Peter Lonard
102 Jeff Quinney
103 Charley Hoffman
106 Jose Coceres
113 Jesper Parnevik
116 Frank Lickliter II
117 Kenny Perry
118 Ted Purdy
123 Pat Perez
125 Daniel Chopra
126 Craig Kanada
129 Stephen Leaney
133 Kevin Stadler
138 Kevin Sutherland
139 Anders Hansen
#N/A Oliver Thomson[/color]
First player selection,

Suresh will pick first and automatically chose the top ranked player
1) David Toms

Sandeep will pick the next ranked player
1) Chris Di Marco

PKB will pick
1) Joe Durant

Ajay will pick
1) Steve Stricker

For second player, the picking order will be reversed, Ajay will pick first Lucas Glover, PKB will pick Boo Weekly , Sandeep will pick Mark  Calcavecchia and Suresh will pick Shaun Micheel

Third player,
Suresh will pick first this time from the black group  Peter Lonard, sandeep - Jeff Quinney, PKB will pick Charley Hoffman, Ajay will pick  Jose Coceres

Fourth player, order reversed
Ajay will pick  Jesper parnevik, PKB will pick Frank Lickliter, Sandeep will pick Kenny Perry and Suresh will pick Ted Purdy.

Fifth player,
Suresh will pick Pat Perez, Sandeep - Daniel Chopra, PKB - Craig Kanada and Ajay will pick Stephen leaney.

So Suresh's picks,
1) David Toms
2) Shaun Micheel
3) Peter Lonard
4) Ted Purdy
5) Pat Perez

Sandeep
1) Chris Di Marco
2) Mark Calvechia
3) Jeff Quinney
4) Kenny Perry
5) Daniel Chopra

PKB
1) Joe Durant
2) Boo Weekly
3) charley Hoffman
4) frank lickliter
5) craig canada

Ajay
1) Steve stricker
2) Lucas Glover
3) Jose Coceres
4) Jesper Parnevik
5) Stephen leaney
Last edited by Kumar on Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Golf contest format

Post by BSharma » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:03 pm

I am afraid that if contestants get to pick players after the tournament starts that we may gradually start losing interest in the golf contest.  There are times when I would have missed picking my players if I knew I could go back after the tournament starts.  Just my two cents worth.  :D



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Re: Golf contest format

Post by kujo » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:13 pm

BSharma wrote: I am afraid that if contestants get to pick players after the tournament starts that we may gradually start losing interest in the golf contest.  There are times when I would have missed picking my players if I knew I could go back after the tournament starts.  Just my two cents worth.  :D
Yeah... I thought Ajay's random picks were a one-time thing.

I wouldn't have done it, if Ajay had not posted a message on Thursday with a sad face! :)

-kujo



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Re: Golf contest format

Post by Atithee » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:05 pm

While the methodology to pick is useful, I do not think this is a good idea for the following reasons:
  • the contest administrator would have to do considerable work to create these lists for the participants who miss the deadline
  • automatic picks would take the human element out - we would want to at least believe that the contestants choose players every week based on some changing criteria and not just the WGR



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Re: Golf contest format

Post by kujo » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:12 pm

Atithee wrote: While the methodology to pick is useful, I do not think this is a good idea for the following reasons:
  • the contest administrator would have to do considerable work to create these lists for the participants who miss the deadline
  • automatic picks would take the human element out - we would want to at least believe that the contestants choose players every week based on some changing criteria and not just the WGR
Yeah, that is right. 

Initially I thought it was you who is going out of the way to add another twist to this weekly contest!! Then I realised it was Kumar!! :)

-kujo



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