Re: Champions trophy Hockey 2016, London

Saniapower · Post by **Saniapower** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:45 pm

Germany is expected to win. GBR is not a very good team.

ssp · Post by **ssp** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:57 pm

Australia are in the final, but following the draw between GB & Germany, GB, Belgium and India all have a chance to join them. A draw against Australia maybe enough for India, but there are quite a few possibilities. We could sneak through even with a narrow defeat depending on the outcome of the GB/Belgium game. At least we are guaranteed a 3rd/4th place match now. Had we hung on to win the Germany game, we would have been in the final.

The Belgians played really well but were undone by some clinical finishing by the Aussies. Belgium actually had more circle penetrations, shots, possession or PCs. They were just as tough physically and showed brilliant skills. These are the 2 best teams in the competition and I suspect they will contest the final and India and GB will play off for the bronze. Perhaps the Aussies will go easy on Thursday and 'allow' us to reach the final as we are probably an easier team to beat compared to the Europeans.

arjun2761 · Post by **arjun2761** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:49 pm

India will make the finals if GB and Belgium tie so that is the best result for us although an India win would make their result moot.
Our next best result is Belgium winning by a small margin (say 1 goal), then India gets through is we lose by a small margin (say 2 goals) as we are currently 4 goals better than Belgium on goal difference.
If GB win then our chances are pretty bleak as they will get through on goal difference even if we tie Australia (i.e., we'll need to beat Australia to make the final) as they have a better goal difference than us.

PKBasu · Post by **PKBasu** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:56 pm

It is absolutely stunning that we are suddenly a world-class Hockey nation again after four decades in the wilderness. My joy is tempered by the absence of Holland (especially) and Spain from the Champions Trophy this time, changes almost calculated to make India the comeback nation of world hockey.

But what has been truly astonishing about India's performance here is that every match has been close, and Team India have looked capable of winning each match (and that too without Sardara, Rupinder Pal and Gurbaaj Singh). Oeltman seems to have wrought some magic, although admittedly the improvement has been gradual and visible over the last two years. The team did well on a tour of Australia, but we always seem to get thrashed by Australia in tournament matches. So the final test of the improvements that have occurred will be today's match against Australia. The last time we were thrashed by them (Azlan Shah cup) Sreejesh wasn't in goal; will his presence inspire a genuinely superior performance by the whole team?

srini · Post by **srini** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:28 am

Like i always said, nothing fundamentally changed in the sporting skills or fitness levels of Indian team. Its just that one fine day, FIH decided that after decades of unfavorable rules like using artificial turf, has decided to do some good for Indian hockey and break the match into 4 quarters...which allowed the fitness short indians to catchup their breath and run in tandem with their european counterparts.Indians were never short on stick skills but long stretches of play made them use crazy aerial routes etc. Reasons for FIH rule change?God knows why but it could have been enamored at the prospect of billion Indians glued to their television and Ad revenue its gonna throw up. Perfectly suits our interests and theirs...

SaniaFan · Post by **SaniaFan** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:18 am

PKBasu wrote:It is absolutely stunning that we are suddenly a world-class Hockey nation again after four decades in the wilderness. My joy is tempered by the absence of Holland (especially) and Spain from the Champions Trophy this time, changes almost calculated to make India the comeback nation of world hockey.

Spain is ranked very lowly right now(11th?) so I guess that should not be a reason to temper your joy

sameerph · Post by **sameerph** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:29 am

Yes, Spain is now longer in serious contention in world hockey these days, Holland certainly is and we can add Argentina to the list of nations not here but will be a force at Rio. They are currently ranked higher than India at #6 while we are at #7.

PKBasu · Post by **PKBasu** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:08 am

Good to know that ups and downs (especially downs) happen to other teams apart from India in hockey! Spain at 11th is pretty disastrous: some of the best players in the Hockey India League used to come from Spain at one time. They have really had quite a fall (as, of course, have Pakistan!).

Argentina used to help us by surprisingly beating teams that we needed them to beat in the 1970s, but were rarely contenders (as they are now; in fact, they seem to beat us rather too often these days). In fact, even in 1976, after our 1-6 drubbing by Australia, Argentina beat Australia -- and so forced another play-off match against Australia (to determine who would go through to the SF). We drew that game 1-1, but lost the penalty shoot-out. And so began the long decline of Indian hockey.

PKBasu · Post by **PKBasu** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:32 am

The first goal yesterday was really an absolute masterpiece fabricated by Sunil from start to finish.

The Korea goal was a stroke of luck, with a very long pass being somehow deflected by a Korean forward past the Indian defence. The Indian defenders deserve some blame but not too much. Nikkin Thimayya's goal 20 seconds later was lightning quick and did reflect poor Korean defending against a fast move, including a brilliant pass from Talwinder that Nikkin pushed in from just behind a Korean defender. Neither goal was a thing of much beauty, and sadly hockey these days depends quite a lot on these ugly goals that involve a lot of luck.
India dominated possession through most of the game, though, and should have won by a bigger margin.

arjun2761 · Post by **arjun2761** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:45 pm

Hopefully, we can close out the final 2 matches strongly here. We are guaranteed to finish in the top 3 in the league stage and hopefully will finish in there as well after the final matches.

Nevertheless, based on the performances here, the Olympics field looks more wide open than I had thought. Going into the tournament, I had a top tier of teams consisting of Australia, Holland, Germany, and Belgium. A long shot second tier consisted of GBR, Argentina, NZ, and India (roughly in that order). We were arguably the weakest team in the long shot tier.

Right now, the top tier essentially appears to be only Australia and Holland. The second tier includes the others (Germany, Argentina, India/Belgium/GBR, and NZ), so that we are right in the middle of the second tier with a much smaller top tier.

ssp · Post by **ssp** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:40 pm

I agree broadly with your comments Arjun.

I think I'd place Australia as the best team and then have a group of Holland, Germany(they will raise their game in Rio because they will have a full strength squad), Argentina and Belgium as the 2nd tier.

The next group is GB, India and NZ . Spain maybe at this level, but because of their lack of competition/funds, I'm not sure about them.

The Rio format may throw up some unexpected semi finalists. We desperately need to avoid Australia in the QF. So a 1st or 3rd place in the pool would be ideal. 4th place would mean a QF v Australia and 2nd place would mean a SF meeting with the Aussies (assuming we win the QF!!). Let's get into the QFs first before worrying about the rest!!

PKBasu · Post by **PKBasu** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:33 pm

India were competitive in the first quarter of the match against Australia, although the latter had a slight edge and got the only penalty corner.
Early in the second quarter, Australia completely dominated play, won a series of penalty corners, and eventually converted one. 0-1.

Saniapower · Post by **Saniapower** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:39 pm

Men vs boys

Varma · Post by **Varma** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:23 pm

Saniapower wrote:Men vs boys

Are you talking about the forum? :P

- Varma

ssp · Post by **ssp** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:39 pm

4-2 loss, so now we need a draw in the final game today or a 1 goal Belgian win.

Not a bad result after a poor first half. Decent fight back though in last 2 quarters.