India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

Post by gbelday »

This is unbelievable! Is it too much to hope for a medal at Rio? Hopefully Terry Walsh gets to stay!
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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

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Post by srini » Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:27 pm

Counter attacks are awesome(most of the goals in this series i can remember came in counter attacks), stick skills and setting up goals has improved by leaps and bounds.What next now? Gold in Champions trophy and in Rio? I don't know what magically changed in this team...the same long passes that used to result in losing the ball to opposition are now tactfully trapped by our own players followed by excellent stick skills in passing the ball to a striker who makes no mistake in converting to a goal.I ask myself what has changed???? It beats me !!
Gold at CT or Rio? Not too likely but getting to the semis at one of these world level events will be most welcome. Don't think we are at a level where we can string 5 good results to win a medal.
Will this series win impact India's rankings? How many rating points will India get from this tournament ?
No ranking points for this series.
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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

Post by Sin Hombre »

A top-6 finish at the Olympics would be a phenomenal result; too early to talk about medals.
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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

Post by ssp »

Watched the replay and today's match was very tough. Especially the 2nd and 3rd quarters when the Aussies really put us under pressure and when the umpiring was at it's worst. Questionable or harsh decisions against us for the PCs and yellow and green cards hurt us. We didn't help ourselves either by tackling crudely and talking back or swinging sticks dangerously.

Overall it was a huge improvement over our usual maulings from all Aussie teams. Somehow they didn't get the cheap turnovers in our half and we denied them easy passage into our D. Sreejesh's improvement and much cleaner tackling and numbers at the back has helped. I suspect better fitness has played a part, but mainly the coach's methods have transformed our defence. We also seemed to play the ball out way better than usual. The long aerials and keeping 2 guys high up the pitch occupied 3 Aussie defenders so that reduced the numbers in their press. I'm not a fan of repeated aerias but against the Aussies, better to get the ball way up the field than lose the ball near our D or give them easy chances.

We used our skills where they mattered and cut down the crazy dribbling in dangerous areas. We haven't cut these out completely but we are heading in the right direction.

Sunil was outstanding and was a big factor in the series win. Most of the others played at a higher level than usual. It will be interesting to see if we can carry this form into the CT and hopefully beat (or draw) another of the big 3 (Germany or Holland). I still suspect we would lose to these 2 + Belgium & a full strength Australia but we are now closer to them rather than being a decade or so behind. We should have a decent chance against England, Argentina and Pakistan. Historically, Australia have been the hardest team for us to combat. They are the fittest, fastest with great players in all positions and their high press has been a nightmare for us for decades.

Maybe now we can hope for some good results. For this to happen, Walsh and his staff have to be around for much longer than the 12 months so far.
Look at what has been achieved since Walsh has been our coach. Amazing and very heart warming for the long sufferings fans (or fools) of Indian hockey. ;)
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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

Post by gautam »

I still think we are lacking 3/4 top players to be a top 4 team at the world level. Uthappa and Akashdeep cause me a lot of unease. I'm hoping Chandi gets back to his best and somehow we can bolster the midfield.

You should now eat up your words ssp :p . None can deny that Akashdeep is the only striker who has been consistently on the score sheet. He is quick and is always present at the right place exactly what is expected of a striker. I understand that there are lot of short comings in his game but he is still pretty young and his game will only improve from here. Hence, we can expect him to become a lethal strikers in few years.

The player who has disappointed me the most is Mandeep Singh, a lot was expected from his after his brilliant performance in Hockey India League and he did show glimpses of brilliance in few matches however he seems to have faded away and is not a regular in the starting eleven.

The major disappointment from this tour easily has to be our penalty corner conversion. We have just been unable to rectify this, Raghu has been completely off colour and Rupinder though has fared better but still unable to meet the international level. It is time that we give some opportunities to Gurjinder and Harpreet.

We have a major competition coming up and it is important for us to do well. India seems to be in a tougher group with the Dutch and Germans in our group. Hence in addition to the victory against Argentina, we would require atleast one more victory which will ensure an easier quarters for us. Getting into the semis would require a little luck as well.
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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

Post by ssp »

I still don't think Akashdeep is one of our best options in attack. Nikkin is more useful (in my opinion) as he has deceptive pace and skills and does not lose the ball 8/10 times like Akashdeep. However, I can't deny the fact that Akashdeep has scored lots of goals this year. I hope he improves his overall game as well and I'll happily eat my words.
Gautam, I agree with your other points. Mandeep did nothing of note in the entire series- except give the ball away. PC conversions have been poor most of the year. I don't think we can 'carry' Ragunath AND Rupinder if they fail to improve their conversion rates. I'd stay with the latter (as he is a better defender) and trial Harmanpreet (I think you meant him as well). from the U21 squad.
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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

Post by prashanthm »

:notworthy: to Walsh....
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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

Post by PKBasu »

Terry Walsh is finally beginning to achieve what his friend Ric Charlesworth always said was eminently possible -- a turnaround in Indian hockey through the application of modern training methods to hone and update the skill set of India's hockey heritage.
We have simply not adjusted to astro-turf in the past 38 years. About time someone did something about basic skills like trapping. To read ssp giving unalloyed praise to most of our players is a delight to my eyes and music to my ears!

We will finish in the top-4 at this year's Champions Trophy -- and, with a bit of luck, will get at least a bronze at Rio. With a bit more of a push, we can even hope to make the Olympic final (in a full competition, ie, not counting Moscow 1980) for the first time since the year I was born!!
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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

Post by sameerph »

Based on the matches I saw, I would put Saradara, Gurbaj,Manpreet, Sunil,Birendra, Rupinderpal (in defense), Sreejesh in outstanding category. It helps when 7 of your players are playing at this level. Nikin, Kothajit, Dharmveer ,Akashdeep (on scroring ability), Lalit, Ramandeep also need to be retained as they have been above average and at a even higher level at certain times. I thought Gurjinder also showed some good defensive skils in one match which I saw him play.

Others can be replaced for champions trophy although I feel Utthapa will be retained based on the 1 goal he scored in the final match and it seems Raghunath too is considered good in selectors the way he had been promoted to vice captain earlier.

Mandeep,Satbir,Harbir might face axe, hope Danish too goes but I fear Lalit will go instead.

I hope 2-3 of the youngsters from under 21 team are chosen.
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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

Post by ssp »

Sameer, your analysis about our team is spot on. I would also like to see replacements for Danish, Uthappa, Mandeep, Satbir and Ragunath.

Other factors which helped us were:

1. New format. The frequent breaks helps the coach to sort out issues quickly. For example in the 4th match, we were under a lot of pressure in the 2nd and 3rd quarters but after the final break, we could re-set ourselves and go again.
2. Umpiring was much fairer than normal. By this I mean,the opposition fouls were being given and their players were actually getting cards! Still think we had some tough calls against us and didn't get the decisions at the other end
3. The Aussies were unsettled by the speed of our attackers. They couldn't push up too high and that allowed us to play the ball out instead of just giving it away in our quarter of the pitch
4. Our players looked fit and played to a higher level than before. Some of this is confidence and some is due to experience. Good to see decent trapping and far, far fewer silly errors all over the pitch. At last we saw some lovely skills. For so many years I have seen our teams struggling to get hold of the ball. There were no flashes of brilliance, just a meek surrender.
5. We are defending as a team. Previously a turnover in midfield would see 2 or 3 attackers against one of our sloths, but now we seem to have guys falling back so quickly. This is due a coach who understands modern hockey.
6. We are much more patient and our attacks are more varied. No predictable blind runs down the right flank and a wild hopeful smash into the D. We rotate the ball really well and at a good speed. We are doing this better because we have players with modern skills- slap hits, low body position etc..
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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

Post by Sin Hombre »

PKBasu wrote:Terry Walsh is finally beginning to achieve what his friend Ric Charlesworth always said was eminently possible -- a turnaround in Indian hockey through the application of modern training methods to hone and update the skill set of India's hockey heritage.
We have simply not adjusted to astro-turf in the past 38 years. About time someone did something about basic skills like trapping. To read ssp giving unalloyed praise to most of our players is a delight to my eyes and music to my ears!

We will finish in the top-4 at this year's Champions Trophy -- and, with a bit of luck, will get at least a bronze at Rio. With a bit more of a push, we can even hope to make the Olympic final (in a full competition, ie, not counting Moscow 1980) for the first time since the year I was born!!
Too optimistic PKB.

I know our record against the Aussies but this is an one-off series.
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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

Post by srini »

ssp wrote:Sameer, your analysis about our team is spot on. I would also like to see replacements for Danish, Uthappa, Mandeep, Satbir and Ragunath.

Other factors which helped us were:

1. New format. The frequent breaks helps the coach to sort out issues quickly. For example in the 4th match, we were under a lot of pressure in the 2nd and 3rd quarters but after the final break, we could re-set ourselves and go again.
2. Umpiring was much fairer than normal. By this I mean,the opposition fouls were being given and their players were actually getting cards! Still think we had some tough calls against us and didn't get the decisions at the other end
3. The Aussies were unsettled by the speed of our attackers. They couldn't push up too high and that allowed us to play the ball out instead of just giving it away in our quarter of the pitch
4. Our players looked fit and played to a higher level than before. Some of this is confidence and some is due to experience. Good to see decent trapping and far, far fewer silly errors all over the pitch. At last we saw some lovely skills. For so many years I have seen our teams struggling to get hold of the ball. There were no flashes of brilliance, just a meek surrender.
5. We are defending as a team. Previously a turnover in midfield would see 2 or 3 attackers against one of our sloths, but now we seem to have guys falling back so quickly. This is due a coach who understands modern hockey.
6. We are much more patient and our attacks are more varied. No predictable blind runs down the right flank and a wild hopeful smash into the D. We rotate the ball really well and at a good speed. We are doing this better because we have players with modern skills- slap hits, low body position etc..
I think the 1st point carries more weight-age (i would attribute about 80%) than the rest of all factors.Walsh may have helped improving in tactics and strategizing but not to the extent that we see a 180 degrees turn around and india winning a hockey series in Australia.Actually i saw almost the same team losing to Pak a month back in the opening tie of Asian games though in finals they scraped home by penalty hits.So it may not be entirely due to coach and high performance director but just format change tilted scales in our favour.Its well known the fitness levels of asian players are never close to the europeans and aussies. With longer breaks, the fitness used to affect our stick skills usually near the end of breaks...i come to think most of the goals opposition used to score against us were either just before the half-time break or at the fag end of the match which is when our guys were drooping in energy levels.Contrary what many of us fans think the skill level of indian players never probably varied much from the time we ruled the hockey with 6 consecutive golds until the time we couldn't even qulify for olympics. It was astro turf which tilted scales in favor of the west and thankfully now the four quarter format tilts it back in our favor.I just hope FIH sticks with this format a long time in future and asian nations comeback to the levels they used to enjoy in past.
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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

Post by prasen9 »

If the Asian nations come back and start dominating, expect the format to change back to suit the white nations.
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Re: India tour to Australia - October 30-November 10, 2014

Post by suresh »

Sin Hombre wrote: Too optimistic PKB.
Tautological since we all know that PKB is the resident optimist and SSP is the resident pessimist in this forum.
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