10th Asia Cup 2017 - Bangladesh

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prasen9
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Re: 10th Asia Cup 2017 - Bangladesh

Post by prasen9 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:06 pm

I am not talking about teams among the top 4 or 5 in the world. India was 5th or better last at the LA Olympics in 1988. And, 5th in the 1994 World Cup. So, we are not talking about that level at all. South Korea was arguably better than us in the late 1990s and 2000s. They seem to have gone a bit downhill which is surprising because they are a first world country now. A richer and fitter society should not regress in modern hockey where fitness is much more important than stick skills.

I am also not talking about being satisfied at not falling at a rate that the other Asian countries have. It was just a gut feeling that I floated out (I said "it seems") to see what the others think. Criticisms and comments are, of course, welcome.

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Re: 10th Asia Cup 2017 - Bangladesh

Post by ssp » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:17 pm

Pakistan is the only Asian country that was good for a length of time but they are now mostly a dysfunctional country. Beating them consistently is good but shouldn't give us too much satisfaction as their hockey program is essentially a failing program in a failing country.
Korea were very competitive from mid 90s till about 2006 due to superb fitness, tactics and discipline. They are still a tough team for us to beat because they will deny us space in the our attacking third of the pitch. Pakistan were successful for decades because they had sensationally gifted players for a few decades, but now they are in a mess so beating them should be the norm.

However, skill wise their guys still seem better than most of our squad, but their structure,fitness and lack of exposure (as well as strange sections) is hurting them badly.

Malaysia have improved in the last 3-4 years and are pretty good against Asian teams, but they seem to struggle against the more physical teams.

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Re: 10th Asia Cup 2017 - Bangladesh

Post by sameerph » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:23 pm

We beat Malaysia 2-1 in the final to lift the Asia Cup. We dominated all the way in first half but allowed Malaysia to come back in the last quarter and put pressure on us. Luckily we held on in the end. Not the most convincing performance but a welcome title nonetheless.

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Re: 10th Asia Cup 2017 - Bangladesh

Post by jaydeep » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:29 pm

Yes, hard-fought win ... Overall third Asia Cup title but the first in 10 years, before this we lifted the title in 2003 and 2007.

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Re: 10th Asia Cup 2017 - Bangladesh

Post by ssp » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:37 pm

Pleased we held on, but tense last few minutes.

We tend to do the craziest things when just holding on to the ball in the last 4-5 minutes would have killed off the game. Somehow, all our players have a panic button that is automatically switched on when protecting a narrow lead.

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Re: 10th Asia Cup 2017 - Bangladesh

Post by PKBasu » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:58 pm

Great that we won the Asia Cup, despite the disappointing performance in the final. We were up 5-0 against Malaysia in the group match after the third quarter, so winning the final by a 2-1 score has to be a relative let-down (suggesting the team isn't able to deal with pressure too well). But it is clear from this tournament that we are now the dominant Asian hockey power again.

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Re: 10th Asia Cup 2017 - Bangladesh

Post by Saniapower » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:51 am

India now clearly the best team in Asia. Thanks to the collapse of Pakistan's hockey empire. But Standard of Asian hockey has gone down significantly. They will lose to any European side, New Zealand, Australia and Argentina.

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Re: 10th Asia Cup 2017 - Bangladesh

Post by prasen9 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:57 am

Not to belabour the point, but South Korea won the Asia Cup 4 times out of 6 between 1994 and 2013. If we can clearly get better than them and remain so, that is a small but definite achievement. India and Pakistan have won the Asia Cup 3 times since its inception with Pakistan winning the first three and India winning 3 among the last 5. India has 5 runner-ups, Pakistan has 3. And, South Korea has one.

Since 2007, Malayasia has been in the top-4 consistently. 3rd, 4th, 4th, 2nd. Not bad. But, they also had three 4th place finishes in the first five tournaments. So, they have improved just slightly perhaps.

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Re: 10th Asia Cup 2017 - Bangladesh

Post by sameerph » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:46 am

I think both South Korea and Pakistan has dropped quite a bit in last few years which reflects in their current world ranking of 13 and 14 respectively. On the other hand, Malaysia has improved a bit but is still at 12th position.

So, with us at current world ranking of 6, I do not consider being best in Asia as much an achievement as say 4-5 years ago when Pakistan, Korea and us were closer in rankings from about 7-10 positions.

It needs to be seen how we do against leaders for many year now Australia-Germany-Netherlands and also Argentina-Belgium-England. That will give clearer indication of how we are doing under new coach. Hockey world league finals in Bhubaneswar in December will be the next big event where all the above 6 + Spain will be there.

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Re: 10th Asia Cup 2017 - Bangladesh

Post by ssp » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:18 pm

Post by Saniapower » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:51 am

India now clearly the best team in Asia. Thanks to the collapse of Pakistan's hockey empire. But Standard of Asian hockey has gone down significantly. They will lose to any European side, New Zealand, Australia and Argentina.
You are right.

We were expected to win this tournament and I'm glad we did so, but we didn't have one game where we had 4 good quarters. Against tougher opposition this usually means we lose games which we have largely dominated. Recent losses/draws against Canada and Malaysia are prime examples.

Some positives- calm game v Korea (including a last minute goal), emergence of Sumit, Dipsan & Gurjant as well as Harmanpreet and Lalit showing good form and some superb attacking moves

Negatives: defending wasn't great (Sardar as central sweeper didn't look good), too many PCs conceded (silly tackles), experienced forwards (Akashdeep, Ramandeep & Sunil) lost the ball far too often.

Let's hope Rupinder Pal returns to improve our PCs and also do the sweeper role better than Sardar. I'd also like to see Armaan Qureshi, Nikkin and Affan Youssef get more chances.

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Re: 10th Asia Cup 2017 - Bangladesh

Post by prasen9 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:31 pm

How about Sardar as defensive midfielder? Unless he is just getting old and he would not work there too.

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Re: 10th Asia Cup 2017 - Bangladesh

Post by ssp » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:19 am

by prasen9 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:31 pm

How about Sardar as defensive midfielder? Unless he is just getting old and he would not work there too.
I think Manpreet is now the main central midfielder simply because he defends better than Sardar who doesn't always cover as much ground when we don't have the ball. At the beginning of his career, Sardar played as right sided attacking midfielder (inside right in old money) and that's where he could be best for India again....mainly because he would displace Uthappa!!

We looked better than previous 2017 performances because we didn't have to carry Mandeep and Talwinder! Look at the difference Gurjant and Lalit made. I'd like to see Uthappa and Satbir replaced by more consistent players and let's see how that works out.

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