2022 FIFA World Cup - Qatar

[jayakris]

I never saw Pele play, but Mbappe is a better pure finisher than anybody I have seen. The guy just scores with authority and is such an athlete in his electrifying runs and ball skills.

Maradona and Messi are different players than MBappe. Both among the greatest players and maybe top-3 with Pele, but Mbappe has quickly broken into that top league with others like Pele Beckenbauer, Ronaldo etc. Right near the top. He may end up as the greatest of all, considering his age though!

Wow, what wonderful WC final. Has to be the best of all times. I have only seen the 10 finals since 1986 and none was better than this.

[prasen9]

Fun game. People have said a lot of things I agree with. It was an iconic world cup final. In some sense, ironic too. Race is not a biological construct but essentially a social one. Having acknowledged that, the team with the colored players lost to the white team. Argentina is traditionally colored being a mixed nation of Amerindians and European settlers. But, unlike the other South American nations, Argentina is also very white. Maybe 60% Italians, 20-30% Spaniards, etc. On the other hand, France too is majority white, maybe 70-80% but their team is made of a bunch of French players of African origin. So, France, the European team was the more colored team. Ironic. Well, the colored team lost to the white team ...

[prasen9]

Argies lost to Saudi Arabia and then go on to win the World Cup.. Just Insane stuff...

Which is why I do not like knockouts. If you really want the thrill of a knockout, maybe we should have at least double-loss-elimination? Of course, FIFA and the other leagues do not care about the best team winning. This is after all entertainment and money making at its best. Who cares about the best team winning? I am not saying Argentina do not deserve the world cup - by any means.

[jayakris]

^^^ I don't know... I really like the current format, even though knockouts can be unfair compared to double-elimination. But d-elimination is tough to schedule in sports that need physical recovery period of 2 or 3 days like Boxing or Football, or American football. That is unlike Wrestling, Baseball, Volleyball, T20 cricket or even tennis and basketball; but only baseball and wrestling have an unacceptably high chance of a fluke result in a single game. So they both use d-elimination where possible.

You do need some serious depth in the team to actually win the football WC now, and no unworthy team has managed to win the WC on a fluke. Even making the semifinal hasn't happened on a fluke for any team. I mean, both of the only Asian and African teams to make the semis in the past (Korea and Morocco) looked like fully-deserving semifinalists when they did it.

Has a high-potential team fallen by the wayside in the knockouts? Sure, there have been some cases - like Brazil this time. But still the team that won in the end never felt to be worse than the one that might have gone out in the first three rounds of the event. The losing finalist in some cases have been as good or nearly as good as the winner though (like France this time, or Baggio's Italian team way back). But all in all, the format has generally worked.

I am very glad that FIFA has decided to drop the idea of 3-team pools in the 48-team field next time, and will be using the 4-team pool format again. Phew. That would have really taken out all the drama in the pool stages. That is really some super fun these days. The simultaneous third matches where we have to wait right through the final whistle to know who advances (like the Korean team bunched up at the midfield, waiting for 7 agonizing minutes and then celebrating like they won the world war!). The world cup is so beautiful. Can't wait for it in N.America in 4 years.

[Atithee]

Love that next one is in N. America but never liked the idea of splitting between countries, let alone three. Just award it to USA or Mexico both of whom have ample infrastructure to hold it by themselves. Canada has hosted many international events and can likely pull it off by themselves too.

What’s the official reason to split it?

[PKBasu]

Sorry I missed posting here about that epic final. For 75 minutes, it was a horribly one-sided match -- although that first penalty (which broke open the match) was ludicrously unfair. The French player did touch Di Maria, but that did not impede Di Maria's progress; instead, Di Maria's legs got entangled after a couple of steps and he tripped himself, so it shouldn't have been a penalty. The Polish referee simply decided he didn't need VAR! In the final 45 minutes, it was all Mbappe. The second goal was simply stunning. I said on FB on 4th December (after his two spectacular goals against Poland) that Mbappe was going to become the best player since Pele (and was already perhaps the best of our times) and brought on myself a storm of vitriol (and sniggering about my ignorance about football). After his performance in the World Cup final -- the very best World Cup final ever (perhaps matched only by the 1954 final, when Puskas' equaliser minutes from the end was unfairly denied) -- surely puts the issue beyond doubt! I'm so glad to find that Jay and several others here agree with my assessment of Mbappe -- but I find it is a minority view among football afficianados (who, of course, insist that club football is far more important than the World Cup!!!).

[Sin Hombre]

While Argentina was the better team in the final, FIFA did its job to give Messi a WC with the very dubious penalty for the first goal only one of many. Bit pathetic but what can you do.

Mbappe has a long way to go to be considered a top-10 player amongst people who follow the sport more than just the WC. He has a lot to achieve and prove in club football, which is and has been the highest standard for decades at this point.

[arjun2761]

While I agree that Mbappé has more to prove in club soccer, he also has the largest contract among Champions league players and it was agreed to before the WC. So clearly he’s seen as elite by those that actually run the teams and put their money behind their assessments….

[jayakris]

While Argentina was the better team in the final, FIFA did its job to give Messi a WC with the very dubious penalty for the first goal only one of many. Bit pathetic but what can you do.

I don't know, I think that penalty would get called 4 out of 5 times. Dembele had no business making contact from behind, and allowing Di Maria to dive! You give these guys a chance to dive, they will. You make a silly mistake like that (but to be frank, he was squarely beaten by Di Maria when he went in, and that frustration is what caused him to sort of nudge him from behind or whatever happened there), it is your fault. Totally unfair from a football standpoint, but the penalty would be called. You can't blame FIFA for it. It was Argentina's day, though France fought them hard after the first 75 minutes.

As for club football being the standard, again, that is your opinion. The diehard football fans (may be 20% of the football followers in the world) and experts like you may feel that. It is quite probably true too, on the basis of football quality. But world cup is many times more important for the world when you consider all the casual football lovers of the world who don't have time to follow all the club football details. Heck, I can't tell you the winner of a single football league out there this year or last year (not even MLS or ISL... forget other piddly country leagues like EPL or Bundesliga )... but don't say I don't like football. I just don't give a damn for club football, that is all. There are a lot of people like that around the world. In fact, I think club following is even worse among women, while world cup does get followed by a lot of women. My wife, for instance. She totally gets into it every 4 years.

[PKBasu]

Agree 100% Jay. The diehard club football fans make all these arguments on my FB wall as well, saying the World Cup is an inferior tournament, etc. Just makes no sense. The World Cup has 4-5 times the following of any club football tournament, even the Champions League. You and I are proof of that.

If someone fails to win an Olympic gold medal, it diminishes that athlete in the sport's history. Milkha Singh was probably the second best 400m runner in the world in 1960. But the fact that he finished 4th defined him forever. (That he had beaten the guy who got the Olympic bronze quite comprehensively at the CWG two years later is a footnote only Indians know). There's no point arguing that "10 seconds cannot define an athlete's achievements" -- they do! Similarly, some have argued that there are only 8 games a player can play in the World Cup, surely that's not enough. Sorry, they are!! Mbappe has performed when it mattered -- in two World Cup finals. His place in football history is secure -- and he will end up on a higher pedestal than Maradona and Messi, although of course there will always be crazy fans who keep making the case for those 2 to be the GOAT.

[Omkara]

Very well said PKB!

[Sin Hombre]

While I agree that Mbappé has more to prove in club soccer, he also has the largest contract among Champions league players and it was agreed to before the WC. So clearly he’s seen as elite by those that actually run the teams and put their money behind their assessments….

He has definitely been considered the generational talent, along with Haaland, of the post Messi/Ronaldo era for some years now.

Haaland will never have the chance to win a WC playing for Norway so equating to Olympic sports doesn't make sense. You cannot win in football without a lot of talent around you.

Alfredo di Stefano, who is universally considered a top-10 player of all time, and Best who is also a guarantee in the top 20 never played a World Cup.

[PKBasu]

Yes of course football is a team sport, and some footballers come from countries where their chances of participating in World Cups are limited. George Best, George Weah, Mo Salah come to mind. Those footballers were lured by money to focus on their clubs, and never really paid enough attention to helping to build up their national teams. Club football is very lucrative, but the real challenge in football is winning the World Cup. Others like Puskas, Eusebio, Cristiano Rolando achieved some glory for their countries, but fell short on the biggest stage.

I am a Brazil fan, but Neymar now has a huge asterisk against his name, never having made it past the QF of a World Cup (although in his home World Cup in 2014, the reason he couldn't play beyond the QF was because of the horrific injury that ended his campaign, leading to his team's humiliation in the SF).

[prasen9]

Why does it have to be one vs the other? The true greats are ones who succeed across the board. Not just in 8 matches x 3-4 world cups. Their club record, national league record, international record, and WC all together define them. The WC gets a large number of people from non-top-club-countries (read Europe and S. America) to pay attention.

[HarvyF]

It was fun game. People have said a lot of things I agree with. It was an iconic world cup final. In some sense, ironic too.