Football: Indian National Team news ...

[BSharma]

Playing a bunch of friendlies against other nations will not solve the ills of Indian football unless AIFF takes proper actions to raise the standard of Indian football.  Playing these friendlies may raise the ranking of Indian football to about #135, but it alone will not bring significant improvement in the team.  Bringing in a few NRIs into the team is a short term solution and will raise the team ranking by a few notches, but if Indian football has to prosper, it must develop home grown talent.  It is up to the government, AIFF, football officials/administrators, team owners, sponsors and football fans to elevate Indian football and my impression is that no one seriously cares if Indian team is ranked #165 or #175. 

[jayakris]

I disagree, in that it is important for the national team to play, win some matches, and at least be in the news.  Cannot get kids to take to football unless there is at least some news about a national team even existing.  The kind of hopeless situation we have, is NOT HEALTHY.  It *does* help for our team to move back to say #110 etc which it was doing even 2-3 years back.

There are some grassroot efforts starting and going on right now, and how well those things will move in the future will determine where we get in 6 to 10 years time.  But right now, I am not going to get philosophical and say that ranking etc do not matter.  Perhaps the ranking number does not matter, but India having a team in the news, that plays somebody and at least occasionally beats somebody outside the subcontinent, is important.  It is important for the sake of the few people who seem to be trying to do something atthegrassroots level, like some at Indianfootball.com and some like our u13 coach Sateevan Balan.

If everybody gets philisophical and gives up, then AIFF will just sit there and do nothing.

Jay

[BSharma]

Indian hockey team plays a bunch of matches every year - a lot more than Indian football team - and it has been in the news a whole lot because India has hosted World Cup hockey matches and several other notable international tournaments recently, yet it has not made the Indian youngsters to take up hockey as much as one would like to see.  Football is not different than hockey in India.

I am not proposing that everyone give up on Indian football, but that a concerted effort by everyone will elevate Indian football.  Indian team must play a lot of friendlies and NRIs should be a part of Indian football, but they will not make much impact on Indian football unless proper actions are taken to raise the standard of Indian football. 

[kujo]

Well, we are now at #165 ..

Indianfootball.com says,  INDIA's catastrophic drop in the FIFA World Rankings continue with a drop of another eight places to now 165th amongst the 207 ranked nations. In Asia INDIA has dropped from 32nd to 34th. INDIA now have 76 points, eight less then in February. Tiny nations like Liechtenstein, the Solomon Islands and Andorra are now ahead of India .... And with no official international planned by the AIFF until August 2007's ONGC International Tournament, one can only fear what is in store for India in those rankings in the coming month's...

Heartbreaking.

Jay

Trivia on Liechtenstein: A principality with 33,000 people, which accidently was invaded by a company of Swiss infantry (170 soldiers) carrying guns and no ammunition on March 3, 2007 (from Wikepedia)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein :

The Liechtenstein national football team has traditionally been regarded as an easy target for any team drawn against them, a fact that served as the basis for a book about Liechtenstein's unsuccessful qualifying campaign for the 2002 World Cup by British author, Charlie Connelly. In one surprising week during autumn 2004, however, the team managed a 2–2 draw with Portugal, which only a few months earlier had been the losing finalists in the European Championships. Four days later, the Liechtenstein team travelled to Luxembourg where they defeated the home team by 4 goals to 0 in a 2006 World Cup qualifying match. They are still considered by many to be an easier touch than most, however, they have been steadily improving over the last few years, and are now considered the best of the European "minnows".


cheers,
-kujo

[jayakris]

Bhushan:  Football *is* different than hockey.   Hockey is basically a sport that very few countries play, and even in India it is only played in very small pockets due to the need for equipment etc.   It was just that India was right at the top that caused Indians to take to the sport.  That we have fallen way below now, is probably causing a problem in the kids taking to it.   Falling from top-3 in hockey to top-8 like we have fallen, is like falling from top-20 in soccer to top-100.   Staying in the news is not what is needed in hockey in India (there is plenty of news) - winning world titles is.  In football, most Indian fans and parents of kids know that the situation is hopeful and promising if we are at least creating some postive news with a win or two over a Thailand or a Canada or a Taiwan or an Indonesia.

I maintain that helping our national team, properly selecting the players for it, cleverly scheduling matches for it, and giving proper authority and support for the national coach are all the EASIER things to do than the grassroots work which must indeed be done for the next several years.  The former is a very important ingredient for the latter to work.  We cannot just say that our problems will only be solved by long-term plans (which we rarely do right anyway) and neglect the former, is foolish.

The hopelessness that pervades Indian soccer circles needs to first go with some positive news - even some contrived, superficial, positive news.  Let us get that ranking back up to 120.

I want the national team to get back together and play some matches.   Contact NewZealand (#129), kazakhstan (#143), Taiwan (#168) Luxembourg (#178), Philippines (#179) etc and see who wants to play.  Give the sports fans in the country something to cheer first.

Jay

[BSharma]

Staying in the news is not what is needed in hockey in India (there is plenty of news) - winning world titles is.

I agree that hockey is not played seiously in as many country as football is, but Indian hockey has a rich tradition.  Indian hockey won junior world and Asian titles yet hockey popularity did not increase even in the heartlands of Indian hockey. 

In football, most Indian fans and parents of kids know that the situation is hopeful and promising if we are at least creating some postive news with a win or two over a Thailand or a Canada or a Taiwan or an Indonesia.

People in Kolkata, Goa, Kerala and few other places are passionate about football.  Thousands of people show up regularly to watch Mohan Bagan play East Bengal (I have been a Mohan Bagan fan since 1961), Goan football fans root for their teams with a passion, and Kerala football has done consistently well for years without much support, yet the football standard has not risen in any of these football heartlands despite a lot of positive news about Kolkata and Goan football teams in the local press, and we do not have a single player from these centers that can play in European football leagues.  Do Kolkata or Goan football fans care only about the wins of their local favorite teams and not about Indian football?  I hope not.

We cannot just say that our problems will only be solved by long-term plans (which we rarely do right anyway) and neglect the former, is foolish.

I did not say that we must neglect playing friendlies or not allow NRIs in the Indian team, but I can reverse your statment and say that neglecting the latter (long term plans) in favor of the former (more friendlies) is also foolish. 

Your statement regarding long term plans ("we rarely do right anyway") is applicable to short term plans also.  Indian football is in a mess because we DON'T do things right, period.  Moving from #165 to #120 is a step in the right direction, but Indian football will not prosper unless we DO things right, and that means having both short and long-term plans that are appropriate for Indian football.  What I am saying is that playing friendlies and adding NRIs to the team without having a sound long term plan to develop home grown talent will bring Indian football to about #110 but not in the top #50.  To me, it does not make much difference if Indian football is ranked #165 or #110 as long as we do not have plans to move Indian football towards top 50.

[BSharma]

If Indian football wants to rise up the world rankings into the top 50 within the next 6 to 8 years, it may have to adopt the Korean hockey model (now adopted by the Chinese men’s hockey team) and modify it to suit the Indian players.  Identify the best 200-300 talented 15-16 years old football players, place them in a high performance football academy that has world class coaches, trainers, psychologists, nutritionists, exercise physiologists, etc., and train them full-time.  Discard the players who are not performing up to par and add new talented players into the mix each year.  Start a new class with 200-300 players every two to three years apart.  Send the team comprising of the best 20-22 players abroad to play regularly against good teams and help the players get into top European football leagues once they are ready to play with the big boys of football.  By the time these players will be 21-22 years old, the Indian team can be good enough to be ranked in the top 50.

Will AIFF adopt my plan or another plan that might be better than my plan to elevate Indian football from its doldrums?  I won’t hold my breath. 

(I have put forth a plan for Indian football because I feel that we should look for solutions rather than criticize the problems ad nauseam.)

[murlikt]

Some good points from both sides

What I want to know is why India cannot develop our youth program and organise friendly matches at the same time? We have to look at how our players are developed and scouted and this is the job of Colin Toal (technical director) but without playing friendly games then the National team itself will not develop. This India u-23 team warmed up for the match by training and also playing a friendly against Corps Signals club in Goa. They should be playing better friendly matches.

This ranking is really sad and to not organise matches because of money shows just how our AIFF have no clue abt football development. Does anyone expect a 165 ranked team to make the WC in 2010? Crazy. If we cannot beat Thailand at home we wiull be crushed by North Korea because they are in the top Asian nations. We cannot keep losing and blaming our height or wasted chances, maybe we need to select different players?? Maybe we need to organise more friendly games with neigbours which are above us in ranking? Maybe we need to get advice on Thailand's youth structure, their goal scorer plays for Crystal Palace in the UK. I do not care if India put a good effort that is the minimum expected to play for your country, if we want to compete we need results

[jayakris]

That is what I am saying too, murli .. Do both. 

I agree with everything Bhushan is saying on the long-term plans, but I was saying that playing some good friendlies and somehow identifying some guys who can play NOW is also important.

I have repeatedly said that scouting is where success will start and end in developing a decent team ina few years.

Identify the best 200-300 talented 15-16 years old football players, place them in a high performance football academy that has world class coaches, trainers, psychologists, nutritionists, exercise physiologists, etc., and train them full-time.

Absolutely.   That is the way to go.   My only problem is that right now AIFF is incapable of organizing this, as the state and local setups are too disorganized to respond to any central plan for this (and scouting must be done in many places beyond just known pockets, even if focusing on pockets would be a good start).   This may happen, as there is incredible pressure on AIFF from AFC and FIFA  .. Blatter is coming next month to India, and AFC/FIFA seem hellbent on not allowing India to do nothing for ever)..  But how well AIFF and local bodies will get this done is anybody's guess.

On the other hand, I know that if Alberto Colaco at AIFF simply decides to take the bull by the horn, he can indeed do it on the outher count of having the national team get together and play a few matches with the attitude that they are not going to stink like this for ever.  These players do have pride in playing for India but they are not even given a chance to work through their problems and start winning some matches.  Neither are some of them getting a chance in the clubs, to make matters worse.

Nnipp1 wrote nicely in the other thread about the problem of every decent young striker of about 20-22 year age getting no chace to play, as the clubs keep signing them up but then making them ride the bench as only foreign strikers get to play.  How can these guys ever improve?   He mentioned Manjit Singh, Abhishek Yadav etc for instance.   This is a terrible vicious cycle. If AIFF goes with the current policy of playing even fewer friendlies (ridiculous, as we commented earlier when that news came out), we are not going to get anywhere and everything only gets worse.   Even the half-decent players we have are getting worse by the day.

I don't think it requires that hard an effort from AIFF to set the club and national team schedules for the next year with a clear view to give a chance for Houghton to work with the national team in a good 10-12 matches to work through our problems.   We need to simply send away a bunch of nonperformers and give a chance to a bunch of good players to show what they can do.  We will lose some matches too, but we cannot give up and not play.

The scouting of junior players of 13-16 age and coaching them to be slowly tried out in 3 to 5 years should be going on simultaneously, but I think AIFF will need a lot of help to do this right in a big country like ours (they just might get help forced on them in some form from abroad and may be forced to use it)..  That is a separate item however, even though this too will only benefit from having a decent national team right now where our coach gets a chance to develop those known quantities in the 20-25 age to a decent outfit of capable players.   I believe that Houghton is capable of teaching the current bunch of strikers and midfielders to play much better if he is given a chance to have the team with him for enough matches.   

Jay

[BSharma]

The Indian football team was ranked #117 in May 2006 and dropped to #130 in July 2006.  By year end, the team was ranked #157 and after remaining at that level in Jan and Feb 2007, the latest ranking stats show India at #165. 

Has the Indian team become significantly worse in the past eight months to drop nearly 50 places?  It appears that the new ranking system probably has a big role to play in the drop in ranking.  The new method to rank the teams went into effect in July 2006 and FIFA expected some teams to rise or fall in world ranking based on the new method.

WHO LOSES OUT?

Teams who often lose or draw matches will get fewer points. Furthermore, any team that records a major victory (e.g. a continental championship title) will suffer losses in the ranking 12 months later if, by that time, it has not gained lots of points in more recent matches.

FAQ – 2006 Revision of FIFA Ranking

[nnipp1]

Our U-23 squad was held to a DRAW by Dempo reserves today!! So lets not get our hopes up for any miracles against North Korea next week...

[murlikt]

What did everyone think of Bob Houghton's interview?
http://www.fifa.com/en/news/interview/0 ... -N,00.html

One interesting thing he said is:

"we have a company looking to do a project with us that will go right through to the qualifiers for the 2014 World Cup and help build a national centre for us"

That sounds very interesting, maybe that is the big starting point for the youth plan.

Another news is Shanmugam Venkatesh, Indian national player, is starting a new academy in Bangalore for footballers:
http://oheraldo.in/node/23320

Great news for South India football

Plus Mahindra and Mohun Bagan doing well in the AFC Cup, this all helps to think less abt our national team ranking! JCT also tying up with a English club

We have the vision, we have the interest, we just need some leaders to put football in the right direction if they start now then India can be a solid football country in 5-10 years to challenge other asian nations. The Indian youth are quickly prefering football over cricket, the media and sponsors will also follow the trend. What do you think

[jayakris]

Houghton continues to sound way too positive and optimistic about our situation.   I sometimes wonder if he understands the enormity of what needs to happen, and wonder if he thinks things could happen as fast as in China.  I don't know if we are where China was in 1998 (almost surely not) - and the Indian politicians do not allow change/action as fast as in China ..

I don't know if a professional company coming in to help all the way till 2014 qualifying, would help in some of our real problems like proper grassroots work in talent scouting.

On the other hand, it is nice to see the coach thinking long term and staying this optimistic though.  Hope that rubs off on Indian football.

Jay

[nnipp1]

Our starting striker on the U-23 National Team played 90 min on Wed against N Korea...he proceeded to play 90 min for his club the next day!! Then he played 90 min again for his club after a 1 day break! 3 full games in 4 days is criminal....no wonder we always have injuries...

[amr090]

http://www.hindu.com/2007/04/11/stories ... 311900.htm

Give this guy and Sunil Chetri a chance on the National Team!